Saving Faith

[Darrenss1]

Christ became the author of eternal life to those who obey Him!

Obedience to God's commands does not nullify grace. How can obedience to God commands nullify the grace that he offers, does He force it on you or do you accept it? If you accept it then are you doing something. Sounds like works to me!

So how does a new convert obey Him? Surely they cannot be saved?

Grace isn't an object, item or thing that one nullifies, the terminology you use isn't even biblical. Grace is part of God's attributes, eternal life is given present tense on the basis of His grace or just as bilbical, His mercy, received by faith alone and not works. God does not put sinners on probation (if you obey, serve, love, work) with the intention of sending them back to prison should they not measure up, the whole mentality is just crazy and not biblical.

Darren

 

[JSM17]

Grace is God's part, obedience is man's part. There has never been a time in scripture that God has not required man to accept His blessing in obedience.

If it is all God and no part of man's will to be saved, which includes doing what God has called us to do then man has no choice in salvation.

Any act on behalf of man is a work, that is why so many have moved to the point of declaring God must save you before you even have faith.

If man has to believe then he is doing something and doing anything on man's part prior to salvation is a work.

Obeying God in receiving His grace is very biblical.


Romans 6:17
17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered.


They obeyed that form of doctrine to which they were delivered.


Romans 6:16
16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

Obedience leads to righteousness, when are you made righteous, when you obey, which is something we must do?

 

[DHK]

Grace is God's part, obedience is man's part. There has never been a time in scripture that God has not required man to accept His blessing in obedience.

There has never been a time in the entire history of mankind where God has required obedience in order to be saved!

 

[DeafPosttrib]

DHK,

You say:

There has never been a time in the entire history of mankind where God has required obedience in order to be saved!

Oh yes. In 2 Thess. 1:7-8 "And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know nopt God, and that OBEY NOT the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ." This passage tells us, when Christ shall come with angels, all wicked people shall all be gathering together and to cast them away into everlasting fire, because they do NOT OBEY the gospel.

'Gospel' of 2 Thess. 1:7 is more than just "good news" of Calvary, it is all about believe, repent, confess, baptize, follow, sanctified, serve, throughout life in order to receive ETERNAL LIFE.

Bible teaches us very clear, in order to have eternal life, is to obey God's Word, and to walk in the light, and to be endure. Or otherwise, if we refuse to obey God, then we shall not receive the eternal life at the end - Matt. 10:22; and Matt. 24:13.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[DHK]

DHK,

You say:



Oh yes. In 2 Thess. 1:7-8 "And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know nopt God, and that OBEY NOT the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ." This passage tells us, when Christ shall come with angels, all wicked people shall all be gathering together and to cast them away into everlasting fire, because they do NOT OBEY the gospel.

'Gospel' of 2 Thess. 1:7 is more than just "good news" of Calvary, it is all about believe, repent, confess, baptize, follow, sanctified, serve, throughout life in order to receive ETERNAL LIFE.

Bible teaches us very clear, in order to have eternal life, is to obey God's Word, and to walk in the light, and to be endure. Or otherwise, if we refuse to obey God, then we shall not receive the eternal life at the end - Matt. 10:22; and Matt. 24:13.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

What does it mean "to obey the gospel"?
It simply means to "believe in Christ and his atoning work on the Cross."
In other words salvation is by faith and faith alone.
What is meant by obedience here is to trust Christ by faith, and that is all.
There are no works involved.

 

[JSM17]

What does it mean "to obey the gospel"?
It simply means to "believe in Christ and his atoning work on the Cross."

Where did you find the verse that teaches these?

 

[Darrenss1]

Where did you find the verse that teaches these?

Are you serious? Look in the Book of Acts, example after example of those that believed were saved then baptized.

Darren

 

[DHK]

Where did you find the verse that teaches these?

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[Darrenss1]

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Yes and I think its very obvious that one act of faith according to eph 2:8-9cannot be substituted with "ongoing" day by day repentence or obedience (or anything else) no matter much the context is tinkered with. The technical issue is eternal life is actually obtained under these terms immediately, its done, completed; there is no way to "work towards it" on a daily basis or to keep the promise alive by additional means of self effort.

Darren

 

[JSM17]

1 Thess. 1:8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

If obeying the gospel is knowing God, believing or having faith alone then why does Paul say that "on those who do not know God" and "do not obey the Gospel"?
Acts 22:9, 10
9 “And those who were with me indeed saw the light and were afraid,[a] but they did not hear the voice of Him who spoke to me. 10 So I said, ‘What shall I do, Lord?’ And the Lord said to me, ‘Arise and go into Damascus, and there you will be told all things which are appointed for you to do.’

What shall I do Lord? I know many of you will say that Paul was saved at this point but it was not until three days later that he had his sins removed, certainly he was not saved while yet in his sins?

15 For you will be His witness to all men of what you have seen and heard. 16 And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.’

 

[DHK]

1 Thess. 1:8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

If obeying the gospel is knowing God, believing or having faith alone then why does Paul say that "on those who do not know God" and "do not obey the Gospel"?
Acts 22:9, 10
9 “And those who were with me indeed saw the light and were afraid,[a] but they did not hear the voice of Him who spoke to me. 10 So I said, ‘What shall I do, Lord?’ And the Lord said to me, ‘Arise and go into Damascus, and there you will be told all things which are appointed for you to do.’

What shall I do Lord? I know many of you will say that Paul was saved at this point but it was not until three days later that he had his sins removed, certainly he was not saved while yet in his sins?

15 For you will be His witness to all men of what you have seen and heard. 16 And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.’

You miss the meaning of this verse. Both the ISV and the GW (God's Word translation) say the same thing here.

(ISV) What are you waiting for now? Get up, be baptized, and have your sins washed away as you call on his name.'

One's sins is washed away as one calls on the name of Jesus (that is, by faith).
--Thus the verse could read: Have your sins washed away as you call on his name; get up be baptized.
The order is not important. The connection is. One's sin is washed away as they call upon the name of the Lord, when they put their faith in the Lord. This Paul had already done. Look at what A.T. Roberson says:

baptism is the picture of death, burial and resurrection, so here baptism pictures the change that had already taken place when Paul surrendered to Jesus on the way (Act_22:10). Baptism here pictures the washing away of sins by the blood of Christ.

Your interpretation contradicts the rest of Scripture and thus is obviously wrong. The only way to be saved is by faith in Christ. If one doesn't obey that simple command: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved," he will forever be condemned to hell/the lake of fire.

 

[Benefactor]

Once we have a regenerated heart (the heart of flesh as opposed to the heart of stone), we will, by nature of our new life, obey God and seek to do His will.

So you are regenerated, born again before you have faith and are saved before faith has been established?

When God changes your heart does he put into you faith?

So God changes you before you even can believe in His Son?

This is what you are implying in your statement.

I take it your are a Calvinist

 

[Benefactor]

Romans 3:24. "But I do not consider my life of any account as dear to myself, so that I may finish my course and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify solemnly of the gospel of the grace of God.

Romans 5:15. But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.

2 Cor. 8:9. For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though He was rich, yet for your sake He became poor, so that you through His poverty might become rich.

Gal. 1:6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;

The gospel is linked to the Grace of God. In other words God’s grace that saves is Christ, His death, burial, resurrection and ascension to the right hand of the Father.

If Christ had not accomplished this would we have God’s grace? The answer is no.

So, when we refer to the “Grace of God” are we not referring to God’s work, which we call His grace which is in fact the death, burial, resurrection and ascension of Christ?

If we are in agreement then I think we can agree that to have faith, faith must have an object. What is an object with respect to “faith”? Is it only a tangible thing like the physical Christ or can it be the granting of favor as a result of Christ? I would posit that the later is the case with respect to saving faith. Truth becomes the object of faith. Truth educates the sinner of his need and the provision and the data becomes the object. Because it is truth then the object is solid but of course trust, faith, or belief in a lie is as one put no faith at all but deception.

Also, some have suggested that regeneration must happen first for a person to have saving faith or to have faith to live the Christian life. This view of becoming saved so that one can then have faith is not supported in Scripture. Others have adequately explained this error.

 

[JSM17]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JSM17
Once we have a regenerated heart (the heart of flesh as opposed to the heart of stone), we will, by nature of our new life, obey God and seek to do His will.

So you are regenerated, born again before you have faith and are saved before faith has been established?

When God changes your heart does he put into you faith?

So God changes you before you even can believe in His Son?

This is what you are implying in your statement.

I take it your are a Calvinist

Notice that the first part of the quote is not my statement, I did not write that, I was quoting someone else. In response to their statement which I do not agree with I posed several questions.

So when you ask if I am a calvinist, I would answer with a big "NO", far from it. I poses the question in light of the idea that some say that one is regenerated before they actually have faith, look at the post again, notice the questions that follow the statement, which are asked because I do not agree with the first comment in that post.