Say baptistboard was to forbid lying

[billwald]

How would a lie be detected and how would the rule be enforced? Should every accuser be required to post a bond? Should every poster be required to post a bond of truth?

What is the difference between giving an opinion and telling a lie? Should the poster be required to classify every statement as to fact or opinion?

If BB can't maintain an honest forum why should anyone expect an honest government or an honest press?

 

[HankD]

How would a lie be detected and how would the rule be enforced?

A lie includes an evil motive - to deceive.

Only God can look into the heart. A person may diseminate disinformation and not be lieing but simply mistaken.
If one accepts the premise of deception as essential in defining a lie, an opinion therefore cannot be a lie unless there is the element of that motive.

Should every accuser be required to post a bond? Should every poster be required to post a bond of truth?

When I was a kid I used to listen to the infamous Maccarthy hearings.
A big deal was made about the willingness of the accused to take a "loyalty oath".

I felt (even as a kid) that requiring a "loyalty oath" of a possible communist spy
was futile as deception is what espionage is all about.

People lie, a bond of truth or a loyalty oath won't stop them.

What is the difference between giving an opinion and telling a lie? Should the poster be required to classify every statement as to fact or opinion?

See above. The difference is a lie includes the motivation to deceive another.
I believe it's helpful to include a classification between the two.
A fact should be documentable, an opinion can be supported by documentation of related facts though not always.

If BB can't maintain an honest forum why should anyone expect an honest government or an honest press?

Is there now or has there ever been anyone with that expectation. Remember the story about Diogenes from your school days?

HankD

 

[Winman]

A lie is saying something you know to be false, an opinion is saying something you believe to be true, whether it is or not.

 

[freeatlast]

How would a lie be detected and how would the rule be enforced? Should every accuser be required to post a bond? Should every poster be required to post a bond of truth?

What is the difference between giving an opinion and telling a lie? Should the poster be required to classify every statement as to fact or opinion?

If BB can't maintain an honest forum why should anyone expect an honest government or an honest press?

Bill there is a lot of ways to tell a lie. Some are outright and some are veiled to slander or sway others. Just about every way to tell a lie is done on this BB and even done by some Mods, and administrators or at least sanctioned by them by turning of their heads when reported.

 

[HankD]

A lie is saying something you know to be false, an opinion is saying something you believe to be true, whether it is or not.

That's a lot more down to earth than my explanation.

In My Opinion of course.

:tongue3:

HankD

 

[Arbo]

Bill there is a lot of ways to tell a lie. Some are outright and some are veiled to slander or sway others.

A couple of examples:

That would be fine if those in the military were Adonirom Judson and openly speaking out against the evil, as much as the evil is openly celebrating itself, but they are not.

(Repeated calls for evidence to back up this claim was ignored.)

Ex-military are bad for law enforcement as they tend to be brutal and lack the ability to stand for the constitutional rights of the people. Also they have a tendency to lie and be dishonest when it comes to their own, look at yourself who is seeking to cover for these criminals even with clear proof they violated the rights of these people, you still seek to cover for them. You alone are the evidence that anyone with ex-military should net be in any form of police work.

 

[billwald]

>Originally Posted by Winman
>A lie is saying something you know to be false, an opinion is saying something you believe to be true, whether it is or not.

YES!

Say there was a 98% accurate and cheap computer program which detected lying. Should passing a theological test be required for church membership?

Me, I assign a probability to what I "believe in." For example, there might be an 80% chance that Jesus rose from the dead. Would that be sufficient for me to join you at communion?

 

[saturneptune]

Bill there is a lot of ways to tell a lie. Some are outright and some are veiled to slander or sway others. Just about every way to tell a lie is done on this BB and even done by some Mods, and administrators or at least sanctioned by them by turning of their heads when reported.

As said above, lie and truth come from inside, a motive of the heart. Truth can be used to hurt someone to the core. Many comments about physical appearance, smell, cleanliness, for example could be told to a person as the truth, with the intent to hurt their feelings. So what has been accomplished by telling the truth? Sometimes things are best left unsaid.

On the other hand, lies can be told be not saying anything. It is the intent of the heart, in a Christian, a Christ filled heart. There are examples in the Bible of untruths being used in the Lord's purposes, such as the actions of Rehab, a person of great faith that made the rolls in Hebrews 11.

In practical living, I am guilty as the next person about not saying things at times. For example, while I worked, I knew of several guys cheating on their spouses, some working right in the same building. If you think I was about to go up to the wife and tell her, not me. If it is a sin, then the Lord will forgive me.

At the same time, I am not about to go up to someone who is not the most attractive thing on earth and make fun of his or her physical feature, although what I would say is the truth. Another thing I will not do, from experience, is when in a crowd, restaurant, etc, and hear foul language, with my family, I will not confront the people saying it. Good way to get shot. I remove us from the area.

I consider gossip one the the most destructive sins running rampant in the church today. I know people who salivate at news about another member or family member who is caught in some kind of sin, a trial or other hard situation. If I know about it, and someone asks me for details, I ask myself, does this person want to pray for this brother or sister in Christ, or are their jaws going to start flapping, and they get an adrenaline rush from the situation. Ninty percent of the time it is the latter.

 

[freeatlast]

> For example, there might be an 80% chance that Jesus rose from the dead. Would that be sufficient for me to join you at communion?

NO! A true believer (someone who is saved) does not "think" or simply hold to a belief/hope that Jesus rose from the dead, they have no doubt at all. 80% would mean the person is not saved and the lost are not to take of the bread and the wine.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

What Lying and Slander Are Not.

They are not:

• a difference of opinion.

• a difference of interpretation of facts.

For example, I am a Republican in more or less the mold of Theodore Roosevelt. My father (who grew up on a farm during the Depression) is a New Deal Democrat. We have differences of opinion and interpretations of facts. Neither one of us thinks the other is a liar.


Slander (from the American Heritage Dictionary):

• Oral communication of false statements injurious to a person's reputation.
• A false and malicious statement or report about a person.

Further, Slander is verbal\oral. Libel involves defamation in other forms of communication, for example: the written word, images, or here on the Board.

So, Slander is not:

• Asking for proof of a statement.
• Asking how an opinion was arrived at.
• Responding to a comment based on a poster's previous posts on the same or other relevant threads.

Please consider this from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation

In my experience, truth like chlorine bleach is the best disinfectant in dealing with the stain of libel or slander.

 

[Arbo]

They are not:

• a difference of opinion.

• a difference of interpretation of facts.

For example, I am a Republican in more or less the mold of Theodore Roosevelt. My father (who grew up on a farm during the Depression) is a New Deal Democrat. We have differences of opinion and interpretations of facts. Neither one of us thinks the other is a liar.


Slander (from the American Heritage Dictionary):

• Oral communication of false statements injurious to a person's reputation.
• A false and malicious statement or report about a person.

Further, Slander is verbal\oral. Libel involves defamation in other forms of communication, for example: the written word, images, or here on the Board.

So, Slander is not:

• Asking for proof of a statement.
• Asking how an opinion was arrived at.
• Responding to a comment based on a poster's previous posts on the same or other relevant threads.

Please consider this from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation

In my experience, truth like chlorine bleach is the best disinfectant in dealing with the stain of libel or slander.

:thumbsup: Good post.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Thanks, a lot of people use the terms slander and libel without really understanding what the terms mean. Like any words used in law, they have well established meanings.

:thumbsup: Good post.

 

[LadyEagle]

Yes, Squire, good post. :thumbs:

Also, a disagreement or difference of opinion is expected in a debate forum, but does not make the person one disagrees or differs with a "liar."

 

[Don]

So -- when person A says something; and person B provides proof showing that person A is in error; but person A continues with their stance, after having been shown that it's wrong; what do we call what person A is doing?

 

[Arbo]

So -- when person A says something; and person B provides proof showing that person A is in error; but person A continues with their stance, after having been shown that it's wrong; what do we call what person A is doing?

The answer is obvious, though he might call the proof apples and oranges to justify himself.

 

[LadyEagle]

So -- when person A says something; and person B provides proof showing that person A is in error; but person A continues with their stance, after having been shown that it's wrong; what do we call what person A is doing?

Stubborn....like a junk yard dog, lol.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Yeup. Also, opinions are not slander or libel. So, prefacing a remark with "Because (lay out your reasons), I believe .....

Stubborn....like a junk yard dog, lol.

 

[Arbo]

Say baptistboard was to forbid lying

It's a shame that this needs to be asked of a site on which most members claim to be followers of Scripture.