SBC 2 sell its HQ in Nashville!

[Paul from Antioch]

Just found out that the SBC is sew broke (the article claims that the - status of the SBC's "funds" is due to several of the SBC's "BIG 'Stars' have been shown to have some "Pastorial 'Events(!!??!!)"

...& thus, funding is going 2 "You know wear"!!??!! ....Now, PfmA is not a member of any SBC churches, but I/"My" (Actually, its Our Savior's!!) church sometimes will "fellowship' w/some SBC ministries" on some things. (PS: I'm NOT a Pastor, but "Only" belong in a church that SOMEtimes dose "Unite w/bros & sis's" of some SBC-related "Causes.)...Moreover, "Gate Way" bookstores ( Used to wuz "BAPTIST" bookstores!) has been a place wear "#1" has purchased sum books, etc. .... ....(2 me .."separated" DOSE SNOT mean "Isolated!)... Please PRAY 4 "Our Bros & Sis's" of the SBC ...."They ain't heavy...they B my bro's & sis's in JESUS's NAME!!" (U no...dat dare oughta B a song!!) OMG ...It wuz 1!! /s/PfmA....Luv y'all!!

 

[JonC]

They have talked about selling for a decade. Seems like they sold some building a while back....can't remember.

One thing to remember, though, is that the SBC is a convention (the churches are independent and choose to join with other independent churches in a convention). There is no prescribed doctrine.

 

[Van]

They have talked about selling for a decade. Seems like they sold some building a while back....can't remember.

One thing to remember, though, is that the SBC is a convention (the churches are independent and choose to join with other independent churches in a convention). There is no prescribed doctrine.

You are of course, completely correct that the local churches do not have to commit to a creed or confession concerning beliefs. But, having dealt with curriculum from "providers of workbooks and the like" the material received presents doctrine that may or may not match the beliefs of the local church.

For example, when I was involved in AWANA, now more than thirty years ago, their work books used the KJV for the scriptures to memorize. As a person who had some difficulty with some of the out of date words or phrases, I would have liked the books better had they used the NKJV or even the dreaded NIV.

 

[JonC]

You are of course, completely correct that the local churches do not have to commit to a creed or confession concerning beliefs. But, having dealt with curriculum from "providers of workbooks and the like" the material received presents doctrine that may or may not match the beliefs of the local church.

For example, when I was involved in AWANA, now more than thirty years ago, their work books used the KJV for the scriptures to memorize. As a person who had some difficulty with some of the out of date words or phrases, I would have liked the books better had they used the NKJV or even the dreaded NIV.

But at the same time it is a church's choice of the curriculum.

The last SBC churches I've been a member of didn't use SBC materials unless a group wanted to use them (seems like it was typically a senior adult class).


That said, I like some of the adult study materials. I taught and was worried when I started because of the material (I assumed it'd be superficial). But it was very good.

 

[Van]

But at the same time it is a church's choice of the curriculum.

The last SBC churches I've been a member of didn't use SBC materials unless a group wanted to use them (seems like it was typically a senior adult class).


That said, I like some of the adult study materials. I taught and was worried when I started because of the material (I assumed it'd be superficial). But it was very good.

Imagine my opinion of material that reflected the Calvinist wing of the SBC as my beliefs align with the General Baptist distinctives.

 

[rsr]

They have talked about selling for a decade. Seems like they sold some building a while back....can't remember.

The SBC closed its Lifeway retail stores in 2019 and sold its headquarters in Nashville in 2021, four years after the new building was completed.

 

[JonC]

Imagine my opinion of material that reflected the Calvinist wing of the SBC as my beliefs align with the General Baptist distinctives.

Yes. If one is looking for material that reflects one of those camps they need to be picky.

 

[JonC]

The SBC closed its Lifeway retail stores in 2019 and sold its headquarters in Nashville in 2021, four years after the new building was completed.

Partly. Their facility on Commerse is still there, and open. It's been there long before I was a grad student, but I became familiar with the place when I used the SBC archives.

Financially the SBC should simply move out of Nashville all together. They owned several city blocks.

I'm just not sure the Convention is worth the cost anymore.

 

[Van]

This pie chart is from 2012, with about 60% of the Pastors being concerned, and about 30% of the Pastors not being concerned at that time.

 

[JonC]

View attachment 10072

This pie chart is from 2012, with about 60% of the Pastors being concerned, and about 30% of the Pastors not being concerned at that time.

This has always been an issue to a degree (the first SBC presidents were moderate Calvinists).

But since the SBC is Baptist the churches that participate in the convention typically do not impose their philosophy on the congregation (the term "reformed baptist" is a self contradiction).

Typically there are Calvinists and non-Calvinists in SBC churches.

The concern is that there is a movement to move from "baptist" to Calvinism in doctrine.

 

[Van]

This has always been an issue to a degree (the first SBC presidents were moderate Calvinists).

But since the SBC is Baptist the churches that participate in the convention typically do not impose their philosophy on the congregation (the term "reformed baptist" is a self contradiction).

Typically there are Calvinists and non-Calvinists in SBC churches.

The concern is that there is a movement to move from "baptist" to Calvinism in doctrine.

1) I highlighted in red what I consider a profound insight of yours!

2) Based on the pie chart, one might assume about 2/3 are General Baptist in belief, and about 1/3 are Calvinist in belief.

3) From my side of the street, I see this "movement" as the stealthy introduction of destructive doctrines, creating factions within the body of Christ.

4) Do you have a theory as to why they do not depart the SBC, and form a convention of "reformed" believers, perhaps affiliated with one or more "reformed" denominations?

 

[JonC]

1) I highlighted in red what I consider a profound insight of yours!

2) Based on the pie chart, one might assume about 2/3 are General Baptist in belief, and about 1/3 are Calvinist in belief.

3) From my side of the street, I see this "movement" as the stealthy introduction of destructive doctrines, creating factions within the body of Christ.

4) Do you have a theory as to why they do not depart the SBC, and form a convention of "reformed" believers, perhaps affiliated with one or more "reformed" denominations?

Two reasons:

1. Many SBC church members who are Calvinists realize that their position is their understanding and as Baptists do not expose their understanding on other Christians. These are Calvinistic Baptists who explain their understanding as "my understanding is...". They look at their non-Calvinistic brothers as equals with different understandings on what is not stated in Scripture.

2. Some SBC Calvinists stay to convert others to their understanding or drive them out. They elevate their understanding to Scripture and themselves to the place of God. These explain their understanding as "I hold the Biblical view, the Christian view, and if you disagree it is because you do not understand the Bible". These people are not true Baptists, but a blend of Presbyterian and Baptist (choosing parts of each but holding neither).

 

[kyredneck]

(the first SBC presidents were moderate Calvinists).

I would consider Boyce, the first president, to be a very strong Calvinist.
Abstract of Systematic Theology by James Petigru Boyce,

[add]

correction: "...James Petigru Boyce, the primary founder and first theology teacher of the first Southern Baptist seminary..."

 

[kyredneck]

SBC is 'biggest success story' of dispensationalism, prof says | Baptist Press

 

[JonC]

I would consider Boyce, the first president, to be a very strong Calvinist.
Abstract of Systematic Theology by James Petigru Boyce,

[add]

correction: "...James Petigru Boyce, the primary founder and first theology teacher of the first Southern Baptist seminary..."

He was. But many of the churches at that time were not.

The key is not whether something were Calvinists or opposed to that philosophy. The key is that this was not a point of cooperation between churches.

 

[kyredneck]

He was. But many of the churches at that time were not.

The key is not whether something were Calvinists or opposed to that philosophy. The key is that this was not a point of cooperation between churches.

Agree In this area the real point of contention was with the Campbellites that split many congregations and gave rise to the CoC. The split between Old School and New School Baptists (in this area) was more a drifting apart, them often sharing the same building and attending the other's services. Baptists and Methodists got along pretty good too.

 

[Marooncat79]

You are of course, completely correct that the local churches do not have to commit to a creed or confession concerning beliefs. But, having dealt with curriculum from "providers of workbooks and the like" the material received presents doctrine that may or may not match the beliefs of the local church.

For example, when I was involved in AWANA, now more than thirty years ago, their work books used the KJV for the scriptures to memorize. As a person who had some difficulty with some of the out of date words or phrases, I would have liked the books better had they used the NKJV or even the dreaded NIV.

Incorrect

All Churches affiliated MUST sign off on the BFM 2000

 

[Paul from Antioch]

Agree In this area the real point of contention was with the Campbellites that split many congregations and gave rise to the CoC. The split between Old School and New School Baptists (in this area) was more a drifting apart, them often sharing the same building and attending the other's services. Baptists and Methodists got along pretty good too.

 

[kyredneck]

??? @Paul from Antioch