SBC and Women Preachers???

[Baptist Believer]

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Bible-boy,

Congratulations on adopting the new Baptist Creed, the BF&M 2000, as your statement of faith. The new "Southern Baptist Church" will be proud.

 

[Daniel David]

Originally posted by Dr. Bob Griffin:
Daniel, I'd ask you to refrain from questioning the salvation of anyone, especially based on the limited amount of info we have on the BB threads.

Such language, whether perceived true or false, will not be allowed.

Dr. Bob, my statement in that last post was not directed at any one person. I was simply saying that one's theology is to be measured by the word and what the word says about salvation.

 

[Daniel David]

Originally posted by Bible-boy:
Daniel,

I agree with you as far as saying that those who maintain that women are/can be pastors teach a false doctrine. Perhaps you should refrain from questioning thier individual salvation and focus on questioning their theology and doctrinal teachings. If you debate whether or not a specific doctrine is true or false you can get your point across without resorting to questioning their salvation.

It is the theology that I question. I never use piety (or the lack thereof) as the determination of salvation.

 

[Servent]

Could someone please explain these verses to me.

1Tim2:11&12
Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer a women not be teacher nor to usurp authority over the man but to be in silence.
See also 1cor.13:34&35, 11:3

Ladies please dont get mad at me I didnt say it God did.

Servent

 

[Debby in Philly]

The way I see it, given the times in which it was written, when women were not usually permitted to learn much of anything, the new-found freedom in Christ may have made women more inclined to ask questions, thus disrupting the meeting. "In silence" is better understood as "in quietness". We all know how we women can get to talking sometimes. And "have dominion" is in the sense of "domineering." I believe Paul was concerned with stopping false teaching and in the orderly conducting of meetings for the purpose of teaching.

 

[Daniel David]

Debby, that would be a fine interpretation if the Scriptures didn't prohibit it.

Note that the prohibition is not to teach OR excercise authority (I dislike the way the KJV has muddied the issue).

If it was merely cultural, he wouldn't have appealed to the creation order twice (also in 1 Cor. 11).

 

[Debby in Philly]

The reference to Eve in 2 Corinthians 11:3 is also concerned with being misled by false teachers. When scripture discusses the fall anywhere else other than these two passages, Adam is always mentioned. In that time where women were not educated and had not been used to having recognition, women would have been easy marks for false teachers.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Servent:
Could someone please explain these verses to me... Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer a women not be teacher nor to usurp authority over the man but to be in silence.

In the days when Paul wrote this, common custom was that only men were in the congregation, and women in an adjoining room where they could see their husbands, but not necessarily see or hear the officiant. The instruction was given to the men, who were to hence later give instruction to the women. So, during the service, women would routinely call out to their husbands, who would answer them. This caused an ample amount of chatter. Paul's answer to this was for women to remain silent in the church, and to allow their husbands to instruct them as they were instructed to. Today, however, the social custom of women being barred from the pews has mostly gone by the wayside.

This verse DOES NOT address the issue of women as pastors, teachers, or leaders. It addresses a very specific problem at a very specific time.

 

[Debby in Philly]

 

[Servent]

Johnv, I do understand that Paul was refering to I was just tring to see what kind of response I would get. I also beleve there are a lot of good women teachers out there. Should they be the sheperd of a church, sorry but no.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Servent:
Should they be the sheperd of a church, sorry but no.

I think each congregation should be allowed to make that decision for themselves, as the Distinctives allow them to.

I have no problem with a Baptist church that only wants male pastors. I also don't have a problem with a Baptist church that would allow female pastors. I also don't have a problem with a church that requires their pastors ro be married. I likewise don't have a problem if a church allows singles to be pastors. Each congregation should be allowed to govern themselves in these matters.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by Daniel David:
I agree with BB. If a woman says she is called to preach (which we know is impossible because God can't lie), she will align herself with apostate groups such as the CBF or BGCT.

Thanks BB for the insight. This is one time I completely agree with you.

You sound quite uninformed. There are some who are in the CBF who do not agree with a lot of what the CBF stands for but they don't agree with the SBC either. So they would rather go the route of freedom and cooperation rather than legalism.

 

[Daniel David]

Sure, if that makes you feel betteer...

 

[Askjo]

Originally posted by J.R. Graves:
I recently heard an individual say that there are over 11,000 women preachers in the Southern Baptist Convention. Does anyone know if this statement is true? Does anyone have any documentation for or against this statement? Thanks for your help.

Last time I heard there was about 8,000 women preachers in SBC. On this BB, I read your post saying 11,000 -- WOW! Growing! True! They are unscriptural.

 

[Daniel David]

Originally posted by Askjo:
Last time I heard there was about 8,000 women preachers in SBC. On this BB, I read your post saying 11,000 -- WOW! Growing! True! They are unscriptural.

Really? What is this source that you heard this from? The SBC takes a stand against women pastors. Did you read their statement of faith? Is ignorance some delightful state of mind?

 

[Askjo]

Originally posted by Daniel David:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Askjo:
Last time I heard there was about 8,000 women preachers in SBC. On this BB, I read your post saying 11,000 -- WOW! Growing! True! They are unscriptural.

Really? What is this source that you heard this from? The SBC takes a stand against women pastors. Did you read their statement of faith? Is ignorance some delightful state of mind? </font>[/QUOTE]I got information from some sources 15 years ago. I can't recall where I found them.

 

[Daniel David]

Originally posted by Askjo:
I got information from some sources 15 years ago. I can't recall where I found them.

Wow, this is such a revelation here. No one would have suspected. I see you have no problem bringing the charge as though you heard it yesterday. Keep up the stellar research.

 

[gb93433]

There are between 42 and 43 thousand SBC churches. We do know that there are some of those churches in the back woods that have had women pastors for years.

Kind of reminds me of what I heard a woman misionary said in response to a young man who asked her about her being a woman missionary. She responded by saying, "if there weren't so many lazy men like you we wouldn't have to go. He never said another word. I think women pastors displays the leadership that is typical of so many men today. Before I pastored in the SBC I was in churches that had loads of men leading. But when I started pastoring in the SBC a few pastors told me that if it weren't for the women not much would get done. I found that to be so true. The typical response i got form so many men was that they were too busy. I told some that they were busier than God intended them to be. Some of them were even retired and had their daily golf but somehow couldn't find time to go visiting during the day.

Several years ago I remember a lady from a pastor search committee called me and asked if I went visiting, I told her I did. She said, Good, becasue the men in this church just don't have time to go visiting." I told her, "Then you don't need me." I followed up by saying that when I was a building contractor I still found time to lead Bible studies and visit people. You make time for what is important.

I found that to be typical of a lot of churches. They want the pastor to do the work of ministry while they watch. I didn't know Jesus' commands only applied to pastors.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by Bible-boy:
I agree with Jerry Rankin that missionaries are not pastors. However, we may have pastors who serve as missionaries. I any case the goal of the missionary is not go out and start a church that they are to pastor. The goal is to share the gospel and let the local people determine their own pastors and church government structure etc., based upon the biblical understanding of the N.T. Church. Then once that new church is able to disciple people and reproduce itself by planting other churches it is time for the missionary to move on to a new field or unreached people group.

I agree with you in many ways. But I would ask then if a missionary is different than a pastor then what would you call Paul? He was a misionary and pastor of pastors. But you have to win them before you can pastor them. Which is what he did.