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SBC Committee Hears Proposal on Sinner's Prayer
- Thread starter Tom Butler
- Start date
Platt backed up on his statement on the sinners prayer and admitted it is in scripture. The constant misrepresentation of it by cals is what drives stuff like this. You may not agree with it but you need to represent it honestly.
It is not biblical in the same way that having an organ in the church is not biblical.
It's not AGAINST the Bible. It's not condemned by the Bible. But it's not IN the Bible.
The problem here is not, to me, the use of the sinners prayer.
Use it. I don't care. I don't like it. I do think it is problematic on many levels.
But that's not what I am citing here.
The problem with this resolution is that it says that something which is NOT in the Bible, recitation of a prayer, is a "spiritually significant component of the evangelistic task of the church."
You don't get to INVENT something and then say that it a significant part of the Church's TASK.
That would be like saying, "The ORGAN is a spiritually significant part of the church's TASK."
No it isn't. It is a tool we can use or not use that we invented. But having and playing the ORGAN is not part of our Lord's evangelistic TASK assigned to his church.
To say something that we invented IS a part of the evangelistic task of the church is, at best- STUPID, and at worst wicked.
Tom Butler
New Member
If I remember correctly, there are two verses cited as proof-texts for the Sinner's Prayer.
The first one is in Luke 18, where the tax collector says "God, be merciful to me, a sinner."
The second is Romans 10:13 "Whoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
Those who cite Luke 18 assume that the tax collector is a lost man, and is praying for salvation. Is that a valid assumption?
Also, if this is an example of the Sinner's Prayer, why don't we tell a lost person that one line is enough? Instead, we suggest an elaborate prayer.
With regard to Romans 10:13, Paul says to call upon the NAME of the Lord. What does that mean? Is it different from calling on the Lord? Is it similar to Romans 10:9, where we're told to confess with our mouths that Jesus is Lord?
I'm raising these questions just to make sure we don't glibly cite some scripture as a proof text that may, in fact, not be.
The first one is in Luke 18, where the tax collector says "God, be merciful to me, a sinner."
The second is Romans 10:13 "Whoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
Those who cite Luke 18 assume that the tax collector is a lost man, and is praying for salvation. Is that a valid assumption?
Also, if this is an example of the Sinner's Prayer, why don't we tell a lost person that one line is enough? Instead, we suggest an elaborate prayer.
With regard to Romans 10:13, Paul says to call upon the NAME of the Lord. What does that mean? Is it different from calling on the Lord? Is it similar to Romans 10:9, where we're told to confess with our mouths that Jesus is Lord?
I'm raising these questions just to make sure we don't glibly cite some scripture as a proof text that may, in fact, not be.
If I remember correctly, there are two verses cited as proof-texts for the Sinner's Prayer.
The first one is in Luke 18, where the tax collector says "God, be merciful to me, a sinner."
The second is Romans 10:13 "Whoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
Those who cite Luke 18 assume that the tax collector is a lost man, and is praying for salvation. Is that a valid assumption?
Also, if this is an example of the Sinner's Prayer, why don't we tell a lost person that one line is enough? Instead, we suggest an elaborate prayer.
With regard to Romans 10:13, Paul says to call upon the NAME of the Lord. What does that mean? Is it different from calling on the Lord? Is it similar to Romans 10:9, where we're told to confess with our mouths that Jesus is Lord?
I'm raising these questions just to make sure we don't glibly cite some scripture as a proof text that may, in fact, not be.
FAITH is what is necessary for salvation- not prayer.
Calling upon the name of the Lord is what people do who have faith.
Being baptized is another thing that people do who have faith.
Confessing Christ before men is another thing that people do who have faith.
Keeping Christ's commandments is another thing that people do who have faith.
And often times the language concerning these things SOUNDS on the SURFACE as if the doing of these things is salvific.
We are all familiar with the passages, for example, that Church of Christ, UPC's and others use to justify baptismal regeneration.
But the message of the Scripture for salvation is not- PRAY! BE BAPTIZED!
It is- BELIEVE.
But we've put the emphasis on the things that ACCOMPANY faith by this inordinate pursuit of the "sinner's prayer" rather than putting the emphasis on the thing through which we are ACTUALLY saved- FAITH.
This is VERY problematic.
The sinner's prayer is designed to ensure those seeking salvation understand what they must believe in from the heart. We go off the mark when we teach that if you claim to believe all those things, you are saved. Would we not be better off in a one on one discussion, where we ask questions and the person answers them in their own words. Do they really understand that all those who profess Jesus will be persecuted? Do they understand they are making a lifetime commitment to put Jesus ahead of all worldly concerns, such as family relationships?
Tom Butler
New Member
In Acts 8, Philip witnessed to the Ethiopian eunuch, and explained the passage in Isaiah 53.
They came across some water, and the eunuch said, "what hinders me from being baptized?"
Philip said, "If you believe you may."
The eunuch said "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."
Philip baptized him.
No sinner's prayer here.
They came across some water, and the eunuch said, "what hinders me from being baptized?"
Philip said, "If you believe you may."
The eunuch said "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."
Philip baptized him.
No sinner's prayer here.
It is not biblical in the same way that having an organ in the church is not biblical.
It's not AGAINST the Bible. It's not condemned by the Bible. But it's not IN the Bible.
The problem here is not, to me, the use of the sinners prayer.
Use it. I don't care. I don't like it. I do think it is problematic on many levels.
But that's not what I am citing here.
The problem with this resolution is that it says that something which is NOT in the Bible, recitation of a prayer, is a "spiritually significant component of the evangelistic task of the church."
You don't get to INVENT something and then say that it a significant part of the Church's TASK.
That would be like saying, "The ORGAN is a spiritually significant part of the church's TASK."
No it isn't. It is a tool we can use or not use that we invented. But having and playing the ORGAN is not part of our Lord's evangelistic TASK assigned to his church.
To say something that we invented IS a part of the evangelistic task of the church is, at best- STUPID, and at worst wicked.
It is not invented read Romans 10:13 What do you call calling on the name of the Lord
In our church we're looking for profession and evidence. Profession is not the sinner's prayer. Profession is actually a confession of certain biblical truths; i.e. personal responsibility for sin, the wrath of God on sin, Jesus Christ (who He is; His deity; His purpose for coming to earth; His death, burial and resurrection), and repentance from sin and faith in Christ alone. Evidence includes obedience in submitting to baptism, commitment to the body of Christ (the Church), love for the saints, good works etc.
It is not invented read Romans 10:13 What do you call calling on the name of the Lord
I dealt with this in post #24.
I dealt with this in post #24.
And you will have to live with what is obviously wrong. Scripture is clear.
saturneptune
New Member
The rolls I usually see you on are the ones from Hardees and the donut shop.Since I'm on a roll here, I think I'll come up with some amendments to the non-Cals Affirmations and Denials document. Might take a while, so don't get antsy.
Tom Butler
New Member
Can one be saved without "praying the prayer?"
I hope so, because I never did, and was never instructed to do so. My pastor met me coming down the aisle and after ascertaining why I had come, he asked me a series of questions to test my understanding. The big one was "do you trust Christ for your salvation?" I said yes. He said "sit down right over there."
Peter's exhortation on the Day of Pentecost was "repent."
Paul's exhortation to his audience on Mars Hill in Athens was "God commands all men everywhere to repent." The response: "Some believed."
Philip's answer to the eunuch was, "If you believe, I'll baptize you." The eunuch's response: "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Paul's instruction to the Philippian jailer: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you'll be saved."
Paul described the gospel as "repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
Paul said one will be saved if he confesses aloud that Christ as Lord and believes in his heart that he rose from the dead.
If someone asked you how to be saved, and you answered, "Just pray 'God, be merciful to me, a sinner." Would that be sufficient?
A missionary told the story of speaking to a tribe in the jungle of South America. As he preached, one of the men stood up and said, "I've heard enough. I believe." Had he heard enough, and did he say enough.
In none of these cases were they instructed to pray a prayer, nor did they pray a prayer.
By the way, do I believe that if a lost man repents of his sin and asks God to save him, that God will save him? Yes.
I hope so, because I never did, and was never instructed to do so. My pastor met me coming down the aisle and after ascertaining why I had come, he asked me a series of questions to test my understanding. The big one was "do you trust Christ for your salvation?" I said yes. He said "sit down right over there."
Peter's exhortation on the Day of Pentecost was "repent."
Paul's exhortation to his audience on Mars Hill in Athens was "God commands all men everywhere to repent." The response: "Some believed."
Philip's answer to the eunuch was, "If you believe, I'll baptize you." The eunuch's response: "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Paul's instruction to the Philippian jailer: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you'll be saved."
Paul described the gospel as "repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
Paul said one will be saved if he confesses aloud that Christ as Lord and believes in his heart that he rose from the dead.
If someone asked you how to be saved, and you answered, "Just pray 'God, be merciful to me, a sinner." Would that be sufficient?
A missionary told the story of speaking to a tribe in the jungle of South America. As he preached, one of the men stood up and said, "I've heard enough. I believe." Had he heard enough, and did he say enough.
In none of these cases were they instructed to pray a prayer, nor did they pray a prayer.
By the way, do I believe that if a lost man repents of his sin and asks God to save him, that God will save him? Yes.
Last edited by a moderator:
Tom Butler
New Member
The rolls I usually see you on are the ones from Hardees and the donut shop.
You know way too much about me.