SBC Leader Urges Churches to Discuss 'Exit Strategy' From Public Schools

[dan e.]

Just some thoughts to consider from a popular humanist as we discuss this issue...

"Education is thus a most powerful ally of humanism, and every American school is a school of humanism. What can a theistic Sunday school's meeting for an hour once a week and teaching only a fraction of the children do to stem the tide of the five-day program of humanistic teaching?" - Charles F. Potter, "Humanism: A New Religion," 1930​

I would agree that our traditional way of doing Sunday school is waning, probably depending on what region you are in, and how much of the traditional way you still run it. I can still remember the pains of reading through the dorky magazine like booklet (I hate the world "quarterly") for 30 minutes.

Yet this guy is probably ignorant of what kind of a leader that a believer could be in a public school. This may be his ideal for public schools, but the ally of believers is more powerful than his atheistic understandings of what education ought to be. Those leading the classrooms dictate these things....not a theorist who wrote books on how it should be. We should encourage and assist believers in this position.

 

[tinytim]

I am 100% FOR Christian education. If you are not, then what are you doing in a Baptist church? The Bible says "Be ye SEPARATE" from the world.

Debbie Mc

This is one reason my kids will never go to a fundy school... at least a UFO (Ultra Fundamental Only) school.
They may turn out sounding like this.

I am in a Baptist Church because I beleive in the Baptist distinctives...

Here's a hint... YOu don't have to be a UFO to be out of this world when Jesus returns!

Thank you for providing the UFO sentiments on education.
Jesus must be so proud of Baptists that want to send their children to monasteries.... :tear:

Can I change my vote from somewhat against, to totally against, and then some?

 

[Baptist Believer]

I heard a sermon last Sunday that claimed that in SBC churches, 87% of the kids in SBC youth group will not attend church by the second year of college.

That stat tells us a lot more about SBC churches than public schools or the state of morality in our nation. Over the last 50 years, in general terms, SBC churches have utterly failed to make disciples of Jesus Christ.

I grew up in an SBC church and have spent all of my Christian life in or near SBC life. Beyond all issues of "liberalism" and "fundamentalism," the gospel has not been clearly communicated and demonstrated within our fellowships. We have had an enormous amount of religiousity, legalism, religious "happy talk", fighting, pop theology, theological arguments, political crusades, and denominational programs, but very few Southern Baptists (and those who have left SBC life) know how to live a transformed life, naturally bearing the fruit of the Spirit, in a way where the world is surprised by the way we live in love and grace.

Jesus said that the world will know we are His disciples through our love for one another. It is pretty clear that there aren't that many of His disciples amount Baptists.

 

[Joshua Rhodes]

WELCOME BACK Joshua!

Thanks rbell... I've missed you brother!

 

[preachinjesus]

Maybe this is just where I'm at...but I will not send my kids to a Christian school where they can get into a Christian bubble. I will deliberately send them to a public school system and supplement their classroom education with a thorough home based Christian curriculum.

The movement away from church that happens in kids that go to public schools and Christian schools is almost the exact same statistically once they graduate. There is no magic bullet in Christian school education. In my experience it often leaves most kids worse off to face the world...and don't get me started on homeschooling. While appreciate families who do both and am thankful for their commitment to the Kingdom, I don't believe it is what we are called to be or do as Christians.

We are obligated to represent Christ in the community and outside the church more than talk about him in the church. The force of the NT is such that believers are to be constantly engaging unbelievers and living authentically before them so they might see the renewed life available in Christ.

Leaving public schools will harm the Kingdom and the overall witness of the Church than help it. If parents got legitimately involved in their own children's educations in the school and in the home we would be sending an army of well equipped and authentic young champions for Christ into the hallways of our schools and have the opportunity to truly capture the next generation with the Gospel.

But most Christian parents don't care and frankly want a quick fix. Leaving the public school system is certainly not the answer we need. Our obligation as Christians is to be salt and light before an unbelieving world. We can't do that from the bomb-shelters of homeschooling and Christian schooling.

Lest we be deceived that no bad thing happens in a Christian school...

 

[4boys4joys]

Questions ?

Maybe this is just where I'm at...but I will not send my kids to a Christian school where they can get into a Christian bubble. I will deliberately send them to a public school system and supplement their classroom education with a thorough home based Christian curriculum.

The movement away from church that happens in kids that go to public schools and Christian schools is almost the exact same statistically once they graduate. There is no magic bullet in Christian school education. In my experience it often leaves most kids worse off to face the world...and don't get me started on homeschooling. While appreciate families who do both and am thankful for their commitment to the Kingdom, I don't believe it is what we are called to be or do as Christians.

We are obligated to represent Christ in the community and outside the church more than talk about him in the church. The force of the NT is such that believers are to be constantly engaging unbelievers and living authentically before them so they might see the renewed life available in Christ.

Leaving public schools will harm the Kingdom and the overall witness of the Church than help it. If parents got legitimately involved in their own children's educations in the school and in the home we would be sending an army of well equipped and authentic young champions for Christ into the hallways of our schools and have the opportunity to truly capture the next generation with the Gospel.

But most Christian parents don't care and frankly want a quick fix. Leaving the public school system is certainly not the answer we need. Our obligation as Christians is to be salt and light before an unbelieving world. We can't do that from the bomb-shelters of homeschooling and Christian schooling.

Lest we be deceived that no bad thing happens in a Christian school...

I would like to know if you would mind sharing how many children you have in the public school?

In the last school year how many people have they invited to church and led to Christ ?

What kind of impact do they have on the school... such as holding Bible study groups ?

Why are other forms of education bomb-shelters ? and finally....

Is this just a spiritual question, are public schools up to par educationally, will my child get a good education there ?

 

[preachinjesus]

I would like to know if you would mind sharing how many children you have in the public school?

You'll notice in my above post there was a bit of a future intention behind it...particularly since I don't have any children (well that I know of...and if there are some I'd like to know how they came to be...:laugh: )

My point is that when Mrs PJ and I consider their options we are going to be sending them public schools or (if a plausible option) a worldclass private school with no religious affliation.

In the last school year how many people have they invited to church and led to Christ ?

I'd change the "invited to church" to "develop a relationship with" but then also add that since any children are a glint in my eye they probably can't either.

What kind of impact do they have on the school... such as holding Bible study groups ?

Well I'd never hold a Bible study group in a school. That is neither place for them to be held.

Why are other forms of education bomb-shelters ? and finally....

What do you mean here? I'm a bit confused.

Is this just a spiritual question, are public schools up to par educationally, will my child get a good education there ?

I got a world class education in my public school. The year I graduated we set (out of my clas of 350) 23 of my peers to Ivy League schools, the average SAT (we didn't do ACT) score for our class was 1200, and we had one of the highest class GPAs in the state. Our school was world class and an excellent example of how to do public education well. We had a larger Christian school in the area that didn't get near this. Also, of my friends who went to that Christian school their experience concerning sex, drugs, and other illicit behavior was exactly the same as the public school I was in.

That said my education and growth wasn't limited and confined to just the public school classroom. I did things outside of the school to continue to develop. The greatest growth anyone we ever take up will inevitably be outside of the classroom.

The purview of schools isn't to instill spiritual education in our children.

I don't care if you send your kids to a public school or Christian school or whatever...it is never the job of a school to educate my kids spiritually. That is my job. It isn't the church's job...it is my job. The church and the school serve to equip my child with the tools to confront the world from two different vantage points. The failure of any educational system always starts in the home. When parents think it is up to school or church to completely form their kids and take no part in that process the kid is doomed to fail.

 

[booklady]

I voted "somewhat in favor."

My oldest daughter graduated this year from a Christian school and my other 2 children are in high school there. We feel this is what is best for our children (and they are happy there) but I would never tell another parent what is best for their children. We are very fortunate to have a good quality, affordable Christian school nearby. I have friends whose children attend public school and others who have home schooled and their children are doing great. It's all about what is best for each child.

 

[4boys4joys]

To Answer Your Questions.

You'll notice in my above post there was a bit of a future intention behind it...particularly since I don't have any children (well that I know of...and if there are some I'd like to know how they came to be...:laugh: )

My point is that when Mrs PJ and I consider their options we are going to be sending them public schools or (if a plausible option) a worldclass private school with no religious affliation.



I'd change the "invited to church" to "develop a relationship with" but then also add that since any children are a glint in my eye they probably can't either.



Well I'd never hold a Bible study group in a school. That is neither place for them to be held.



What do you mean here? I'm a bit confused.



I got a world class education in my public school. The year I graduated we set (out of my clas of 350) 23 of my peers to Ivy League schools, the average SAT (we didn't do ACT) score for our class was 1200, and we had one of the highest class GPAs in the state. Our school was world class and an excellent example of how to do public education well. We had a larger Christian school in the area that didn't get near this. Also, of my friends who went to that Christian school their experience concerning sex, drugs, and other illicit behavior was exactly the same as the public school I was in.

That said my education and growth wasn't limited and confined to just the public school classroom. I did things outside of the school to continue to develop. The greatest growth anyone we ever take up will inevitably be outside of the classroom.

The purview of schools isn't to instill spiritual education in our children.

I don't care if you send your kids to a public school or Christian school or whatever...it is never the job of a school to educate my kids spiritually. That is my job. It isn't the church's job...it is my job. The church and the school serve to equip my child with the tools to confront the world from two different vantage points. The failure of any educational system always starts in the home. When parents think it is up to school or church to completely form their kids and take no part in that process the kid is doomed to fail.

I hope that your children never see two girls kissing in a hallway, smoking or drinking or hear any foul language in these schools.

 

[just-want-peace]

You'll notice in my above post there was a bit of a future intention behind it...particularly since I don't have any children (well that I know of...and if there are some I'd like to know how they came to be...:laugh: )

You sound just like me before I had any kids! I KNEW EXACTLY HOW EVERY KID I WAS GOING TO HAVE WAS GOING TO BEHAVE.

Note this thread, and come back to it, say, 2 years after your first one and update us on how close you reach your goals of behavior.

I have learned a little in my 70 year sojourn, and one of the most accurate is , " NEVER say NEVER", especially when you haven't had to make the choice in question.

(Crow doesn't really taste very good, but I've eaten so much that I can force it down now.)

IOW, don't be too adament about what your kids are/aren't gonna do since they are the ones that will ultimately make that decision with you as a guide only!

So you be the best and most Christian guide you(& MAMA) can be, and let God handle 'em for the outcome.

 

[gerald285]

I voted Absolutely in favor. However I am aware that this is not practical for all.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

I voted somewhat against...
Not because I am against Christian Schools... (I would love for my children to go to one if there was one close by, and I could afford it)

But because the decision should be made by the family under the direction of God... not a denomination.

I guess I don't like people telling me what I must do...

Tim, you MUST make this decision with your family, under the direction of God, of course! :laugh:

 

[preachinjesus]

I hope that your children never see two girls kissing in a hallway, smoking or drinking or hear any foul language in these schools.

I don't really understand what this means but honestly in my experience all these things happen in Christian schools and public schools.

The big issue here is the myth that "Christian" schools are safe from all of this or that by sheltering your kids in the home you'll keep them away from all this behavior.

Honestly, honestly...I was exposed to much of this (including all of those examples at the evangelical university I attended) during my days in public schools and I still was able to get married as a virgin, am in vocational ministry, don't curse at all, never smoked or drank, and never had a homosexual encounter.

Even more honestly...most of the young people I knew who struggled in all of these or lots of these areas came from Christian schools and home schooling environments.

For me the Exodus Mandate is a failing proposal and completely against the desire of God for our involvement in our worlds around us.

 

[rbell]

It bears repeating....priesthood of the believer, baby.

 

[PastorSBC1303]

It is not the place of the SBC or any denomination to tell people how to raise or educate their children. Each situation is different and the parents should be responsible enough to put their children in the best situation.

Public school can be a good option for people...

Home school can be a good option for people...

Christian schools can be a good option for people...

To me the issue comes down to the commitment of parents to be involved in the education of their children.

 

[mcdirector]

rbell mentioned priesthood of the believer. I think that we as a church need to provide help for parents as groups who choose each of these options. We did Private and Public school because we had two very different children. We considered homeschooling. It is not cut and dry.

As Media Center Director, I've tried my best to make sure that there are all kinds of materials in the Media Center for the home schooling and public schooling parent to use.

 

[dan e.]

I hope that your children never see two girls kissing in a hallway, smoking or drinking or hear any foul language in these schools.

This is probably one of the most random comments I've read yet!

What on earth are you getting at?? Do angels begin to sing, and bright lights shine on the halls as you enter the Christian school doors? This is funny...I'm picturing it right now.

 

[Andy T.]

For me the Exodus Mandate is a failing proposal and completely against the desire of God for our involvement in our worlds around us.

Setting aside the issue of whether the SBC has the authority to direct or encourage others on this issue, you seem to be saying that it is not God's will (i.e., desire) for people to homeschool or Christian school. What if a bunch (let's say 90%) of Christians decided to homeschool or Christian school on their own, without any directive from the SBC or other denomination? According to you, that would be against the desire of God. So much for parents deciding what's best for their children, huh? Those 90% would be going against the desire of God. That would be sin on their part, no?

This probably deserves another thread - maybe you can start one to show why homeschooling or Christian schooling is unbiblical and against the desire of God.

 

[LorenB]

I graduated from Public School. My wife graduated from public school. We have been teaching in Christian Schools for over 30 years. We just spent a semester being substitute teachers in what is considered an excellent Public School system. We subbed at all levels - K through 12. The teachers were mostly Christians and almost all of them felt that they were fighting a losing battle in trying to be a Godly influence with their students.
The worldly forces that are prevalent are stronger every year and the spiritual opportunities are rare and getting more scarce.
The curriculum was academically outstanding but humanistic to the core. Christian parents are deluding themselves to think that they can correct 35+ hours of humanism a week at home.
I would liken it to sending your child to a Jihadhi School for years and then expecting their child to come out pro Israel.
Sending your child to a Public School is just not a reasonable option.

 

[dan e.]

Setting aside the issue of whether the SBC has the authority to direct or encourage others on this issue, you seem to be saying that it is not God's will (i.e., desire) for people to homeschool or Christian school. What if a bunch (let's say 90%) of Christians decided to homeschool or Christian school on their own, without any directive from the SBC or other denomination? According to you, that would be against the desire of God. So much for parents deciding what's best for their children, huh? Those 90% would be going against the desire of God. That would be sin on their part, no?

This probably deserves another thread - maybe you can start one to show why homeschooling or Christian schooling is unbiblical and against the desire of God.

I think his quote was that the "exodus mandate" was against the desire of God. Meaning that the denomination mandating parents pulling their kids from public schools.

Your comments seemed to take his comment a little bit out of context.