SBC Pastors and OSAS

[SovereignMercy]

http://www.elevationchurch.org/

 

[Michael Wrenn]

X2. Plus Stanley is disqualified from ministry due to his divorce. But he is very wealthy and adored by the people whose ears he tickles.

I don't believe that.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

http://www.elevationchurch.org/

I just read their "beliefs" section. They are conservative evangelicals. What do you find objectionable about them?

 

[12strings]

If the SBC lets Elevation Church exist, then you have no worries.

-First, the SBC doesn't "Allow" any churches to exist. The church exists...and gives the SBC some of its money for use in missions, theological training, church-planting, and disaster relief.

-Second, for Michael Wrenn, Elevation's Pastor, Steven Furtick, while officially holding to conservative Evangelical theology...has show lack of discernment by giving nothing but praise and admiration to Joel Osteen and calling T.D. Jakes "The Greatest Preacher of Our time," while welcoming to his own church's platform.

 

[12strings]

Third... Though I do not know if it for certain, I think it very likely that there are SBC Churches whose pastors do not hold to OSAS... Simply because there are some godly men in my church who do not.

There may also be some overlap of Free-will Baptists who have associated with the SBC, though I don't know that to be the case.

...However, I suspect that more common is the somewhat mis-guided hope in a simplisitic OSAS that makes them feel Ok about their children and grandchildren who have rejected the church, because they prayed a prayer when they were a child, and got baptized...so now rather than seeking them out and pointing them back to Christ, we can just sit back and believe they're ok, since after all, you can't lose your salvation...right?

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Third... Though I do not know if it for certain, I think it very likely that there are SBC Churches whose pastors do not hold to OSAS... Simply because there are some godly men in my church who do not.

There may also be some overlap of Free-will Baptists who have associated with the SBC, though I don't know that to be the case.

...However, I suspect that more common is the somewhat mis-guided hope in a simplisitic OSAS that makes them feel Ok about their children and grandchildren who have rejected the church, because they prayed a prayer when they were a child, and got baptized...so now rather than seeking them out and pointing them back to Christ, we can just sit back and believe they're ok, since after all, you can't lose your salvation...right?

That is an astute observation.

 

[12strings]

In further reply to the OP, An SBC pastor who did reject OSAS would proably be able to preach against it just fine in their own church...the church would either accept it (as some no doubt already do), or they would run him out.

Now, he would probably have much less success promoting his beleifs on an association or state or national level, and any motion brought by him rejecting OSAS would not get anywhere.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

In further reply to the OP, An SBC pastor who did reject OSAS would proably be able to preach against it just fine in their own church...the church would either accept it (as some no doubt already do), or they would run him out.

Now, he would probably have much less success promoting his beleifs on an association or state or national level, and any motion brought by him rejecting OSAS would not get anywhere.

I knew of one pastor in the area who was rumored not to believe in OSAS, but he kept that to himself, so I don't think anyone ever knew for certain. He kept his job.

 

[awaken]

Here is another verse that gets thrown out there ...

"Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain." (1 Corinthians 15:1-2)

Here we see another conditional statement. If we don't hold firmly to the Gospel then we have believed in vain.

They received the word, but did not hold firm to it...does this bring to mind another scripture?

 

[convicted1]

It is all part of Millennial Exclusion. Very sad

Correct. And some on here got "das boot" a few years ago for supporting it.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Here is another verse that gets thrown out there ...

"Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain." (1 Corinthians 15:1-2)

Here we see another conditional statement. If we don't hold firmly to the Gospel then we have believed in vain.

They received the word, but did not hold firm to it...does this bring to mind another scripture?

Calvinists like to pretend that these kinds of verses don't exist and that only verses which support their position are in the Bible. They think if they ignore the former, their doctrine will be irrefutable.

 

[preachinjesus]

But do you think they could openly preach/teach against the doctrine in their churches?

Sure.

My bigger issue is that I don't think this is nearly as important as some feel it is. Listen, if I was going to have this as part of my theology it probably wouldn't affect my style of ministry too much. I sure wouldn't break fellowship with someone who doesn't hold to OSAS. I just don't see why relevant, growing churches would want to get bogged down in this kind of theological debate. We've got more important stuff to do. If you're getting up Sunday after Sunday and preaching against a theological position of relatively minor significance I'd challenge you to think a little more broadly and begin addressing serious topics and needs.

 

[MorseOp]

You are making a distinction without a difference. And I make no distinction and know no one who does and I know a lot of pastors.

I am sure that you do know a lot of pastors. I do too. I know pastors who believe that a profession of faith guarantees your salvation and nothing can cause you to lose it. They do not view obedience to Christ as evidence of a changed life. Compare that to the Reformed view of perseverance of the saints and you do have a distinction with a difference.

 

[Iconoclast]

Calvinists like to pretend that these kinds of verses don't exist and that only verses which support their position are in the Bible. They think if they ignore the former, their doctrine will be irrefutable.

Not at all Michael....this verse is spoken of often in reference to those who make a false emotional profession , but fall away.
Like in the parable of the sower....some seem to receive it joyfully but fall away from their false profession.....it was not a God given saving faith.

Jonah tells us salvation is of the Lord.:thumbs:

 

[Iconoclast]

I am sure that you do know a lot of pastors. I do too. I know pastors who believe that a profession of faith guarantees your salvation and nothing can cause you to lose it. They do not view obedience to Christ as evidence of a changed life. Compare that to the Reformed view of perseverance of the saints and you do have a distinction with a difference.

yes ,there is a difference:applause::applause::applause:

 

[Revmitchell]

I am sure that you do know a lot of pastors. I do too. I know pastors who believe that a profession of faith guarantees your salvation and nothing can cause you to lose it. They do not view obedience to Christ as evidence of a changed life. Compare that to the Reformed view of perseverance of the saints and you do have a distinction with a difference.

I suppose people come up with their own names for things. The first one you mentioned is just lost.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Not at all Michael....this verse is spoken of often in reference to those who make a false emotional profession , but fall away.
Like in the parable of the sower....some seem to receive it joyfully but fall away from their false profession.....it was not a God given saving faith.

Jonah tells us salvation is of the Lord.:thumbs:

And those cases do exist; I am not arguing against that.