SBC to ban speaking in tongues?

[Joseph_Botwinick]

OK. Sorry.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[EdSutton]

Originally posted by insuranceman:
I am saved firstly. Been that way since 1971. I am well aware that being a member of a denomination saves no one. By saying that I am a Baptist, I am expressing my doctrinal position, as well as my position on church polity. If you tell me you attend the Church of God, it tells me that while we agree on the sufficency of the blood of Christ, we will differ on the manifestation of spiritual gifts.

gb93443, you asked if I am among some Baptists who have a poor testimony. I love the Lord and have been faithfully preaching and living the Word for over 30 years but neither am I perfect or sinless. I do not believe all pentecostals or charismatics are all bad because of what Jimmy Swaggart or Jim Bakker did. My church has participated in the recent past in two joint worship services with two different Church of Gods. My heart breaks when others(Christians) bring reproach on the cause of Christ. There many Baptist preachers who you nor I have never met but who have faithfully and without compromise served the Lord Jesus.

I still stand by my original post. I would not join a pentacostal church and try to change their belief concerning speaking with tongues. No where in the Baptist Faith and Message does it mention that Southern Baptists believe in tongues, prayer language, etc. If there are missionaries who believe such they ought to find a mission board which is more in line with what they believe.

Insurance Man, You are absolutely correct that " No where in the Baptist Faith and Message does it mention that Southern Baptists believe in tongues, prayer language, etc."

You might also want to consider that "No where in the Baptist Faith and Message does it mention that Southern Baptists do not believe in tongues, prayer language, etc."

I have read and studied every word of the BFM in all three 'Editions' as printed and updated/revised in 1925; 1963; and 2000. That issue is not addressed. So it is an attempted ex post facto reading to attempt to write this in where the words do not exist. The BFM does not mention Sunday School, or the Cooperative Program either. would you also say that they are therefore "unscriptural", because they are not specifically spelled out there? The logic is the same. And FTR, I am a Southern Baptist church member, and one whose beliefs you would consider acceptable, in this regard, I believe, based on your post. But let's not try and inject into silence.

The SBC has had at least three outstanding opportunities, as a body, to address this, specifically, and did not. I would offer that there are seven possibilities about this. Unaware; unconcerned; unpersuaded; unconvinced; unsure; unimportant; or unneeded. My guess is that the last one is the only one that will stand up.
In His grace,
Ed

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by insuranceman:
No where in the Baptist Faith and Message does it mention that Southern Baptists believe in tongues, prayer language, etc. If there are missionaries who believe such they ought to find a mission board which is more in line with what they believe.

No where does it say to use a toilet. The BF&M does not condemn the use of tongues either.

THE SBC is like a chameleon--always changing. Did they get a new revelation? Remember Whitsitt? How could you ever trust a Mormon church called First Baptist... that is always getting a new revelation and constantly changing in its doctrine? It tells me somebody does not know how to interpret scripture when they are so whimsical and constantly being driven and tossed by the wind.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by donnA:
Our denomination does not control our church, it's monies, or our pastor. They have no control over us what so ever. This statement usually comes from someone who really doesn't know.
Other denoms I can not answer for.

Isn't it amazing how the SBC leaders when I was a young pastor often told me what to avoid and what to preach on. What it amounted to was to preach on the easy non-controversial passages of scripture. Why preach on things people already understand and anyone could easily interpret that. That kind of stuff does not require study.

Sometime ask an SBC leader if they would send a DOM who has spoken in tongues but has never made it an issue if the majority of pastors agreed. They would say, "No." That is control from the top down. I would be willing to bet that quite a number of pastors would be easily willing to leave the SBC if it were not for the annuity board.

 

[EdSutton]

Originally posted by Jarthur001:
Just a short story on tongues

I had a friend that visited a church that practiced speaking in tongues. He sat and listened to the preaching and as people were moved by the preaching some stood up and began to speak in tongues. This was followed by someone else that would interrupt what was uttered in tongues. After about the 3rd time this happen, my friend stood up and spoke in tongues too. What my friend had just uttered was then interrupted by the pastor of the Church. Following the pastor, my friend once again stood up and told the whole church that what the pastor said was wrong. My friend had simply quoted the 23 Psalm in the Hebrew language.

Although I think you really mean interpreted, I observed at least one where the interruptions were more obvious than the 'interpretations'.

Hmmm!

I thought I Cor. 14 had something to say about "at the most, three" as well as "and that by course" (one after another) as opposed to one attempting to "out-shout or outtalk" someone else, but I guess they hadn't gotten around to reading those verses in much depth or, on the same verses, engaging in much detailed expositi...

Ed

 

[Matt Black]

Since neither 'praying in tongues' nor 'not praying in tongues' are Baptist distinctives, I don't see why this issue determines whether or not one is an authentic Baptist, any more than whether you use wine or grape jiuce at communion affects whether or not you're Baptist.

 

[drfuss]

I Cor. 14:18,19 - I thank God that I speak in tongues more than you all. But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.

The issue in the SBC IMB is the use of a private prayer language, not speaking in tongues during a church service. Those opposed to the gift of tongues often quote verse 19 to deminish the gift of tongues. They don't mention verse 18 where Paul thanks God he "speakes in tongues (Private Prayer Langauge) more than you all".

If the Apostle Paul applied to the SBC IMB to be a missionary, he would not qualify.

 

[Aaron]

SBC churches surrendered to charismania when they opened their doors to pop idiom music in their worship services. It's only a matter of time now.

 

[Matt Black]

Again, since neither worship style nor the issue of 'tongues' form part of the Baptist distinctives (or even part of the SBC F&M 2000 doctrinal statement), why is it an issue?

 

[Dustin]

Thins were different back in Paul's day the only scripture they had was the OT. THATS why they did healings and signs and wonders, so that people may believe. I don't much mind if people today want to do it, JUST DO IT LIKE YOUR SUPPOSED TO! I'm really really careful about things liek tounges because they can be faked.

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

Dustin,

Tongues aren't the only things that can be faked...

And, IMHO, a lot of tongue talkers are like Samson who **assumed** he still had God's Power on Him after his hair was cut...

They assume that just because they can speak in Tongues they are still "Cool" with Jesus and walking in His Perfect Will...

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you--unless, of course, you fail the test?

The possibility of failing the test is implicite...

Whethere they ever were saved, or never were saved...

I don't really care they need Jesus *NOW*.


A lot of those that decry Tongues assume that only one form or manifestation ever existed...

But, if Paul wrote:

1 Corinthians 14:18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you.

How then could he write:

1 Corinthians 14:27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, two--or at the most three--should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret.

Limiting the exercise to a total of three per sevice...

Seems to me that Praying in The Spirit, in Tongues, might be the answer...

Giving a possibility of two distinct NT uses of a heavenly language...

Just a thought...

I suppose if I wanted to pray to God without the church knowing what I was saying I could use a 'created' language, say Pig Latin...

Then I'd be denied Missions Funds because I made a joke of the decree. Unless of course they didn't recognis Pig Latin and assumed it was tongues!

(Sorry couldn't resist... )

Mike Sr.

 

[Dustin]

I wish I knew what languages they were speaking! I do think though that Pentecostals make way too much of speaking in tounges. It's wouldn't call it wrong, but a little "off".

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

Dustin

It's wouldn't call it wrong, but a little "off".

Off... Is a good word for it's excessive emphasis.

Long term proof of the Holy Spirit's Indwelling is The Fruit of The Spirit, and a Person Walking in the Spirit and _NOT_ fullfilling the lusts of the Flesh...

And, I've seen **MANY** "Baptists" with these Long Term Proofs...

They may not be "Tongue Talkers"...

But, I've seen Baptists put 'us' Pentecostals to shame when it comes to extending God's Grace, Evangelism, and even Purity...

Though both 'general groups' have their own particular "Black Sheep"...

A couple of Scriptures popped into mind...

Romans 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

Hmmm maybe that's what Armenianism is all about?

A compensatory to the equation of being Spirit Filled... (Too bad it didn't work!)

1 Timothy 6:17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;

Seems to me that far too many Pentecostals have been so consumed with pride over being Spirit Filled that they forgot that with Power comes Responsibility and a higher standard for their Conduct...

But, that's just one insiders opinion...

Mike Sr.

 

[Dustin]

Ah, but just because I do not speak in tounges doesn't not mean I am not filled with the Holy Spirit.

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

Dustin,

Don't draw me out where I'll be excommunicated!

I will say however...

I've seen Baptists do more with the Spirit as the Paraclett than many Pentecostals have done Filled to Overflowing....

What is important is a Heart Towards God...

And, it would be impolitic for the Holy Spirit to force a Baptist to Speak in Tongues and get kicked out of the church they grew up in...

Especially if He has a yielded faith filled heart without the Tongue Talking...

The problem comes, for me anyway, with Cessesionism... Not just the Tongues but healing and working of Miracles...

Granted there are *many* frauds out there...

But, only the Genuine (of worth/merit) is Counterfeited...

Mike Sr.
We also have to consider if we want to remove Scriptures we don;t agree with from our Bibles?

1 Corinthians 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by SpiritualMadMan:

We also have to consider if we want to remove Scriptures we don;t agree with from our Bibles?

1 Corinthians 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

We don't remobe them. We take them in the context in which they were written.
You are mistakenly applying Scriptures written to the Corinthians to our society today.
I know another culture that does the same thing with another passage of Scripture. The Lord told Abraham, before he approached the burning bush, to take of his shoes for the ground that he was standing on was holy ground. The application of that is that everytime we enter into the church building we are to take off our shoes, for the church building is holy ground. They all take off their shoes. No, these aren't Muslims, they are Christians. It is the same principle. They are taking a passage out of its historical context and applying it to today's setting. You do the same thing. Why not be consistent? Why not take off you shoes as well. Why not apply all those cultural things that have now passed to today's setting. Taking off one's shoes in our culture, when the temperatures drop down below minus 20 in the winter time could be a bit difficult. They always leave their shoes outside the church building.
DHK

 

[drfuss]

I belonged to Pentecostal churches for about 40 years and have belonged to a non-pentecostal Baptist church for the past 15 years.

I have found the dedication and service to the Lord about the same in both type churches.

IMHO, the pentecostal churches make too much over speaking in tongues. This sometimes leads to pride, i.e. thinking they are better than those who don't speak in tongues.

On the other hand, the non-pentecostals tend to assume that they have everything spiritual that there is, and therefore speaking in tongues cannot be of God. The idea that God only deals with people the same way he deals with us is arrogance. God deals with people according to their needs.

 

[Gershom]

Originally posted by DHK:
The Lord told Abraham, before he approached the burning bush, to take of his shoes for the ground that he was standing on was holy ground.

I think that was Moses.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Gershom:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DHK:
The Lord told Abraham, before he approached the burning bush, to take of his shoes for the ground that he was standing on was holy ground.

I think that was Moses. </font>[/QUOTE]I think you are right. That is what I get when I don't proofread what I have typed.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by Aaron:
SBC churches surrendered to charismania when they opened their doors to pop idiom music in their worship services. It's only a matter of time now.

If you look up the word for gifts it stems from the word for grace. Gifts are gifts of grace to the church for the edification of the body.

The SBC started going down not by its music but by its unwillingness to do evangelsm and make disciples. So will every other church which refuses to make disciples to the same thing.

Someday just ask Paige Patterson how many disciples he has personally made. I have never read about or heard him ever make reference to making disciples but rather about how every boy should have a dog and a gun. We know more about his safaris than we know about the disciples he has made. We know more about the new library he had added to his home than we know about if he has made disciples.

We know that the current president has made disciples and does evangelism. From out of the heart the mouth speaks.