Originally posted by music4Him:
Originally posted by DHK:
[qb] Tongues have ceased, and are not for today. Those who think they are have not looked at the Scripture closely enough:
1. Tongues were a sign to the Jews of the first century. The sign has passed.
Scripture please that tongues was for the "First Century" Jew.
1 Corinthians 14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips
will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
"This people" is the nation of Israel. They were the same people that Peter addressed on the Day of Pentecost. Tongues were for a sign to those Jews, as Peter explained it was at that time. He told them then that "these were not men drunk with wine as ye supposed, but this is that which is fulfilled by the prophet Joel.." In other words it was a sign. Those were Jews. It was a sign to the unbelieving Jews that salvation through Christ was the only way to heaven; in other words, the gospel of the Apostles was authentic. It was from God. It was no longer through works and sacrifices that the Jew could be saved, but through faith in Christ, and in him alone.
The reference goes back to Isa.28:11,12.
The Lord says that the Jews would not believe the prophets, therefore he would send His message to them in languages spoken by Gentiles, which to them is abhorrent. That is why it was a sign. That just could not happen. To listen to the message of God through Gentile languages was something very difficult for the Jew to do, and yet that is exactly what happened with the gift of languages (tongues). It was always always a real genuine foreign language.
Originally posted by DHK:
2. Tongues were a sign for the Apostles of the first century. The sign has passed.
Scripture please that tongues was for the "First Century" Apostles. And why can't the apostles today can't have them.
There are no apostles today. There were only 12 apostles. Judas betrayed the Lord, and Matthias was chosen in his place making up the 12th. There are only 12 Apostles.
Revelation 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them
the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
2 Corinthians 12:12 Truly
the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.
Hebrews 2:3-4 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was
confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?
--bearing witness with signs, wonders, various miracles, and
gifts of the Holy Spirit These were the signs of the Apostles. It is how people knew that they were apostles and not frauds. It is how they knew that their message was true and not false.
Originally posted by DHK:
3. Tongues was given for revelation before the New Testament canon was complete. The New Testament is now complete.
Scripture please... Yes the NT is complete but if tongues were for the writing of the NT then why would Pauls writtngs about the gifts of the Spirit where tongues are mentioned even included if they were suppost to cease and why wasn't this plainly stated in the bible that tongues would no longer be in use once the NT was written?
It is.
1 Corinthians 13:8-10 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But
when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
--The perfect completed Word of God has come, and did come by the end of the first century. Up until that time tongues could be used as a form of New Testament revelation, when necessary. But prophecy was the main mode of revelation here. But these all ceased by the end of the first century when the books of the New Testament were complete--when "the perfect" (the Word of God) was come.
Originally posted by DHK:
There is no need for tongues. Their purpose has been fulfilled. Tongues is a sign, a sign that passed at the end of the first century when it was no longer needed.
Tongues have their place in the body of Christ.
1Cor 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
The tongues spoken today are gibberish, and not the Biblical foreign languages of Bible times.
"I would that ye all spake in tongues but rather that ye prophesied" You are not getting the meaning of that passage. What is Paul saying? It is something like this: "It would be nice for all of you to speak in languages but
I would rather that you prophecy. The emphasis is on the prophesying, not the speaking in tongues. The gift of tongues is actually frowned upon because it was so misused.
The statement is entirely moot. Considering the statements already made demonstrating that tongues have ceased, the verse quoted would only apply to first century Christians anyway, no matter how you would want to interpret it.
DHK
Next you'll be saying that Paul forbidding women to teach was just a cultural thing!
