Schedule of the Multiple Crucifictions of Christ

[saturneptune]

Romans 10 has your answer.

Paul says "9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."



================================

And of course ...







Christ died 2000 years ago. "Once for All".

as the "Atoning Sacrifice for OUR sins and NOT for OUR sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" 1John 2:2

As the Protestants reminded the papacy "Bible avoidance is not the global solution you appear to have imagined".

Christ died once for all. If we are saved we preserve though our lives. We do not slip in and out of salvation numerous times. If we stray, He creates circumstances to bring us back in line. If He does not, we were not saved in the first place. Romans 10 is a good example of SDA warping verses. If we are saved by Romans 10:9 we are saved, end of story. There is nothing in that verse that allows for your multiple times of salvation.

 

[BobRyan]

Christ died once for all.

Indeed - "He is the Atoning Sacrifice for OUR sins and not for OUR sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" 1John 2:2 - NIV.

The once for all sin offering - completed on the Cross. His life "given for the WORLD" John 6. All mankind.

And yet Atonement (as God informs us in Lev 16 - Day of Atonement) includes BOTH the work of Christ as SIN offering (Lev 16:15) AND the work of Christ as High Priest - Lev 16:15-32

It is that High Priestly work going on in heaven for us NOW - while Christ is seated at the right hand of the Father - that is individual and that offers this kind of Gospel mechanism to mankind.


Romans 10

Paul says
"9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."

If we are saved we preserve though our lives. We do not slip in and out of salvation numerous times.

"He is able to graft them in AGAIN IF they do not continue in UNBELIEF" Romans 11.

Matt 18 - teaches the lesson of "Forgiveness REVOKED" .

Your argument is "with the text".

==============


Matt 18 is another place where "forgiveness revoked" is a subject of the Bible - often ignored by those clinging to man-made-tradition over the Word of God.

[FONT=&quot]32 ""Then summoning him, his lord said to him, "You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]33 " Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?'[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]34 ""And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]35 "" My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.''

Matt 6[/FONT]
14 For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.



In Christ,

Bob

 

[saturneptune]

Romans 10 has your answer.

Paul says "9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."



================================

And of course ...







Christ died 2000 years ago. "Once for All".

as the "Atoning Sacrifice for OUR sins and NOT for OUR sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" 1John 2:2

As the Protestants reminded the papacy "Bible avoidance is not the global solution you appear to have imagined".

The problem is that you stated "free will" allows us to choose Bible avoidance. First of all, why would a Christian, saved by grace through faith (which is the only way to salvation, despite your denominations insistence on a works salvation) want to practice Bible avoidance? The problem with your term "free will" is that you are using it to build on your premise that we can lose our salvation by our various daily actions, which, by the way, you never explained what those actions are. Free will for a person without Christ merely means the freedom to choose amongst various degrees of ungodly choices. So for the unsaved person, all choices are Bible avoidance.

For the saved person, why would the new nature allow for Bible avoidance? Yes, Christians do stray from the Lord, but He brings them back into a right relationship with Him, by any means He deems. Again, since you fail to define the parameters that allow for the loss of salvation, it is impossible to answer your ideas. This we do know. There are only two states. If one is saved, God will take whatever action necessary to make him or her more like Jesus each day. If God does not, he or her is not saved. Slipping in and out of a line of salvation for an entire life span is a myth.

As far as your quote from Protestants to the Papacy, what does that have to do with eternal security? Both the RCC and the SDA teach a works gospel, so your entire church is built on Bible avoidance.

You are always talking against the RCC, but in the final analysis, both the SDA and the RCC reject salvation by grace through faith, so what is the difference? Also, since you brought up the RCC, which of the three models does the SDA fall under?

Catholic: visible, universal church
Protestant: invisible, universal church
Baptist: visible, local, autonomous church

 

[BobRyan]

The problem is that you stated "free will" allows us to choose Bible avoidance.

Indeed you can choose to avoid the warnings in scripture no matter how they expose your man-made-traditions to be unbiblical.

First of all, why would a Christian, saved by grace through faith ... want to practice Bible avoidance?

Hint you are doing it right now.

The Bible detail raised is found here --



Matt 18 is another place where "forgiveness revoked" is a subject of the Bible - often ignored by those clinging to man-made-tradition over the Word of God.

[FONT=&quot]32 ""Then summoning him, his lord said to him, "You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]33 " Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?'[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]34 ""And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]35 "" My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.''

Matt 6[/FONT]
14 For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.

The person fully forgiven - is treated with forgiveness revoked - under certain conditions according to Christ.

But according to your man-made tradition that is not possible for the person fully forgiven.

Your solution? -- don't quote the text, don't deal with the details found there - just resort to a form of "harrumph" and name calling apparently hoping that I will respond in kind and forget to focus on the Bible details you are so desperately avoiding.

My reference to the RCC and the 2nd commandment - gets to a topic that even Evangelicals cannot claimed to be confused about. If they were aware of the Bible-avoidance tactics being used on this subject - they would have an endless line of response to give you on any doctrine you wish to expose in the Catholic system of belief - using your own methods when their traditions are challenged.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

Sadly "telling stories" about fictional idea such as " scheduling Multiple crucifixions" is not at all "sola scriptura" Bible study nor is it possible to refute Bible chapters such as Matt 18 and Romans 11 by making up stories. In Heb 10 we are told that those who are saved and then fall - lose their salvation - have crucified Christ afresh in their hearts - but this cannot be twisted into "those who believe the Bible warning about those who have fallen from Grace and been severed from Christ - are crucifying Christ afresh by believing the Bible". Such Bible avoidance bending of Heb 10 -- simply does not work.

That idea does not work with those who are not married to tradition over the Bible.

So then -- maybe it is time to look at Romans 11 without so much "Bible avoidance".

It is difficult to believe that the solution to all the Bible avoidance being used on this thread so far to defend the man-made tradition of OSAS against the Bible - is to say negative things about Free Will Baptists, Methodists, Seventh-day Adventists and anyone else that choose the Bible over OSAS.

in Christ,

Bob

You consistently refer to romans 11 about losing salvation when it clearly is talking about Israel being put aside and the church age starting. has nothing to do with an individual's salvation and you repeatedly refuse to respond to this every time I point it out

 

[BobRyan]

You consistently refer to romans 11 about losing salvation when it clearly is talking about Israel being put aside and the church age starting.

Turns out - it is not possible for the careful Bible student to dismiss all the individual - person-level details in the letter of Paul written to Christians in Rome - both Jewish AND Gentile Christians -- living in Rome.

I am sure you will agree.

==========================

[FONT=&quot]Individual - saved gentiles grafted in with individual saved Jews - "fellow partakers" in Christ.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, [/FONT]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Rom 11[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
13But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,
14if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellowcountrymen and save some of them. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
15For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
16 If the first piece of dough is holy, the lump is also; and if the root is holy, the branches are too.
17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
22Behold then thekindness and severityof God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]23And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.[/FONT]



[FONT=&quot]The OSAS argument dies here at several points.

1. It dies if the argument tries to ignore "But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles."

2. it dies in that Paul's "Graft them in again" is specific to " move to jealousy my fellowcountrymen and save some of them"
3. And it dies in that the gentiles that ARE saved are being grafted in WITH THEM - with the "SOME" of the Jews that are saved. " you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them"

4. And of course it dies in that the Gentile who 'stand by your faith" is being "Warned" about being cast into the lost position of those Jews who even OSAS people admit are lost.

"thekindness and severityof God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off."[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]OSAS does not survive Romans 11 once we admit that those who were cut off are lost and that "you who stand by your faith" are "saved" because you cannot warn the saved about becoming lost the way Paul does here in Romans 11 -- if you choose the tradition of OSAS over the Bible.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]


[/FONT]

 

[BobRyan]

Romans 11 -


[FONT=&quot]Let's look at "the details" in Rom 11 that do not fit OSAS as we answer the question "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]who is the YOU in Romans 11 that Paul is warning and what is he warning them about?"
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
1. The "you" that Paul is addressing in Romans 11 is "IN Christ" and is looking the fact that Jews fell - so that "YOU might be grafted in".

2. "the YOU" in Romans 11 is "standing by faith"

3. the "you" in Romans 11 is being told that the Jews who fell and were "removed" by God - "fell due to unbelief and YOU stand only by your faith".

4. The "you" in Romans 11 who is standing by faith and is clearly a gentile ("[/FONT][FONT=&quot]you who are gentiles[/FONT][FONT=&quot]") is being told that "you stand only by your faith" and that "YOU should fear" rather than looking at the Jews who were removed by God due to unbelief and then becoming conceited as "you" say to "yourself - they were removed that I might be grafted in".

5. the "you" in Romans 11 - is a gentile Christian, IS standing by faith and IS being "WARNED" to "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]fear for if He did not spare THEM then neither will He spare YOU"[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Romans 11 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]is specifically to the Gentiles - does "I am speaking to you who are Gentiles." - This cannot be spun into "Rom[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 11 is talking about the nation of Israel" .

How does "move to jealousy my fellowcountrymen and save some of them." get spun into "the entire nation"?? As if "Some of them" being saved is "the entire nation saved as a group"? [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Paul says "restore them again" about the"some of them" he is trying to save.[/FONT]