Genesis is so much deeper than a simple literal reading approach can offer.
From the beginning the book is rich in symbolism and figuative language.
If you've missed this fact you've simply been reading Genesis-lite.
Rob
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Scholar Explains Why So Many Reject Genesis
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From the beginning the book is rich in symbolism and figuative language.
If you've missed this fact you've simply been reading Genesis-lite.
Rob
Interesting, show me the "symbolism and figurative language" from the beginning.
Why Is the Idea of Millions of Years So Contrary to the Bible?
Steve Ham talks to Dr. Georgia Purdom about why the idea of "millions of years" is contrary to what the Bible teaches in this week's Answers Conversation podcast.
They talk also about the assumptions made to arrive at a long period of time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcGNo6QI3wg&feature=youtu.be
Steve Ham talks to Dr. Georgia Purdom about why the idea of "millions of years" is contrary to what the Bible teaches in this week's Answers Conversation podcast.
They talk also about the assumptions made to arrive at a long period of time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcGNo6QI3wg&feature=youtu.be
This post sidesteps the OEC versus YEC ground. Returning to the OP and our understanding of Genesis. Genesis is foundational to Christianity. But lets narrow it down even more, Genesis is made up of 50 Chapters, with the first 11 being the object of internal debate. The 20 (or so) generations from Adam to Abraham.
Opinions vary concerning when Abraham lived, but most dates fall between 1800 BC and 2800 BC. The Bible gives apparent durations for each generation from Adam to Abram, totaling 1876 years. Thus it is difficult to place the creation of Adam further back than 4700 BC.
According to YEC understanding, then the Universe is less than 6700 years old. To explain the apparent greater age of the Universe, it is said that God created the Universe with apparent age, like the wine.
Old Earth Creation folks (at least some of them) leave the date for Adam (6700 BC) but because they interpret the creation days as days of indeterminate length, they push the duration of the creation to about 14 billion years. To explain the early "man" bones, they suggest the dust of the earth from which God made Adam and Eve, could have been an animal, a primate which God altered to create Adam, giving man the ability of abstract thinking.
All of it goes against scripture which teaches (Job 38) we do not know.
Opinions vary concerning when Abraham lived, but most dates fall between 1800 BC and 2800 BC. The Bible gives apparent durations for each generation from Adam to Abram, totaling 1876 years. Thus it is difficult to place the creation of Adam further back than 4700 BC.
According to YEC understanding, then the Universe is less than 6700 years old. To explain the apparent greater age of the Universe, it is said that God created the Universe with apparent age, like the wine.
Old Earth Creation folks (at least some of them) leave the date for Adam (6700 BC) but because they interpret the creation days as days of indeterminate length, they push the duration of the creation to about 14 billion years. To explain the early "man" bones, they suggest the dust of the earth from which God made Adam and Eve, could have been an animal, a primate which God altered to create Adam, giving man the ability of abstract thinking.
All of it goes against scripture which teaches (Job 38) we do not know.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Darwin admitted that after trying for years to marry the Bible to evolutionism he could not do it - and so he rejected Christianity as his "solution". Dawkins, Provine and P.Z Meyers all admitted to the same problem and the same result.
So also do most conservative Christians agree with this fact - there is no way to marry "Six days you shall labor...for in SIX days the Lord MADE.." -- to "beeellions and beeellions of years"
in Christ,
Bob
So also do most conservative Christians agree with this fact - there is no way to marry "Six days you shall labor...for in SIX days the Lord MADE.." -- to "beeellions and beeellions of years"
in Christ,
Bob
There is a difference between rigid literalness and literal truth.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Dinesh D'Souza is an apologist for Bio-Logos!
quantumfaith
Active Member
I know, he is a wonderful scholar and apologist.
I have great respect for him, theologically and intellectually.thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
... for an heretical viewpoint. Given this:
... we would have to assume you reject biblical truth, as he does.
quantumfaith
Active Member
You are free to Assume anything you wish.
No, how am I "conditioned" to believe what I believe about the age of the earth.
You said that I did not get this from Scripture but it was how I was conditioned.
So I am curious if you can support such an insulting claim.
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quantumfaith
Active Member
Come on Luke, he read it in a YEC article.
I noticed you didn't answer the question. Your honest answer will tell you how you are conditioned.
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As is the case with most theological revelations, you begin with what you observe and you go to the Bible for instruction concerning what you observe.
For example, I observe that the United States is declining. I want to know why. I want instruction on if and how it can be fixed. Having observed this, I go to the Bible and my eyes are opened.
We observe stars in the night sky that no longer exist. It takes light billions of years to reach us from those stars.
We observe that the universe is expanding at a particular rate which means it is very old.
And then, because of the TRADITION taught us, not because of what the Scripture actually SAYS, we say, "Oh God, how can these things be?" Then divine Providence points us back to these Scriptures and we see that "day" means "epoch of time" in the Bible more often than it means 24 hour period.
We realize that even in our own day people use "day" to signify something other than a 24 hour period.
And then we say, "Oh, so my thinking that the universe was young was based on faulty hermeneutics all along!"
That's how you'll come to it- and if not you, your children.
Apologies for the delay, I've had more important ministry things than posting on this message board.
Creation looks old and is observably old. We've found archeological sites that are over 10,000 years old. Rock formations and other geological data reflect a world that is over 10,000 years old. When we drill down into the ice caps on either pole we find materials that are over 10,000 years old. We've found bones of people who lived on this planet over 10,000 years old.
If we go out into space, the nature of astro-physics represents a creation that is over 10,000 years old.
The Bible isn't the only revelation which God has placed in this world. Creation itself is a function of revelation from God about God's plan, purpose, and promise. We have a grand narrative unfolding around us that testifies to God's creative and redemptive work. Since the Bible (as we have it) has only existed for 1700 and before that there were, even in the YEC proposition, 8,000 or so years of existence, I would have to suggest that God's revelation of Himself began before a printed text.
Now, I'm happy to grant you that God is the Creator (this is the result and point of two creation narratives at the beginning of Genesis.) I'm also happy to grant you that God creates with age. If you were to search my posts that I've made this point before and believe it has substantial reason behind it.
Creation appears old and we are to understand creation through its expression and the biblical text. As a result, and following from the evidence around us, I suggest that creation is very, very old.
This doesn't mean I accept humanistic evolution (or even theistic evolution.)
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Is that "we" used so prolifically the Royal WE, the plural we, or the wee we!
saturneptune
New Member
Just think, six weeks and Moses can wear his Santa hat.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Frankly, though I believe in a literal six 24 hour day creation and a young earth/universe, I am not necessarily a believer in Usher's 6000 year age of the universe. We don't know how long Adam and Eve occupied the garden before they rebelled.
I would be interested if you know how are all those dates determined?
Only a petulant child would say this.
But I appreciate it, honestly.
Because if there are any intelligent people reading this who are wondering on what side they should fall, you just settled it for them.
They will think as they read this, "Oh, how STUPID and small! The kind of mind and attitude that would come up with this infantile tripe is the kind of mind that stubbornly clings to tradition over Scripture. This settles it for me!"
Thanks, Aaron.
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