Science in our public school systems

[john6:63]

Scarlett O.

I know there are a lot of genuine Christian Science teachers out there and you seem to be one. I commend you for giving your class a chance to see both sides, but Scarlett; you live in a shell if you believe all Science teachers teach as you do. When I was in the 8th and 11th grade I had a science teacher who was an admitted atheists and taught evolution with a vengeance. Could the people in the community do anything about it? NO.

Depending on what grade you teach depends on how in-depth one gets into evolution. If a child continues ones studies in science, eventually Darwin’s theory will be presented. Maybe not in grammar school, but they’ll work their way to it.

You may not teach “evolution” and if I were a Science Teacher neither would I, but it’s in the science books and you are required to teach it. Passing out Gideon Bibles is brave….I wonder what the ACLU would say about that, but keep it up, again we need more teachers as yourself! (I’m not familiar with the policies of passing out Bibles in school; like the term in evolution, I’m just “assuming” the ACLU would have a field day.)

Again I don’t want to be labeled as a “science teacher basher.” I learned a lot of neat stuff in science and actually love science as a kid. I believe parents need to be aware that evolution is being taught in schools, which is in conflict with what they learn on Sunday mornings in Church.


Helen:

I’ve been reading this message board for a while now and respect your opinion. I firmly believe evolution is without a doubt a religion. If one puts his/hers faith and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ, one is saved. We as Christians take the word of God on Faith; hence Christianity is a religion, but there are some sectors within Christianity, which I don’t consider Christians, but that’s another debate.

The “theory” of evolution should never have been accepted as a legitimate scientific “theory.” True science uses logical inference from empirical observations to arrive at truth. Evolution is not verifiable; it explains few facts, and it contradicts several scientific laws. Further, there is a great deal of undeniable evidence against it. So, scientifically, it must be modified or discarded. An undocumented hypothesis, better explains evolution, therefore those who believes in evolution has to take this theory on faith, which is IMO why evolution is a religion.

[ May 06, 2003, 09:30 AM: Message edited by: john6:63 ]

 

[john6:63]

Wow, some of the views of evolution on a Baptists Message Board are quite disturbing. I read the profiles of those and you say you’re Baptist, but I would have to question. That’s just my opinion.

There is NO middle ground when it comes to evolution. I’m sorry, but there’s not. There are NO “good Christians” who believes in evolution.

Does the 1st law of thermodynamics contradict creation? Nope. God created the “universe.”
Uni = single or one
Verse = a sentence
“Universe” = a single spoken sentence; hence “And God said, let there be…”

Science teachers and professors will convince a kid of “micro evolution” (which is fact) and then put a spin on “macro evolution” and boom, you’ve just been taught that we “evolved” from some unknown substance in some unknown sea. Of course science will use “big words” and terms to whitewash these “unknowns.”

Any person who believes this universe just “happened by chance” or we just “evolved” are either fools or liars and the devil is laughing at how easily he has deceived you.

I asked my mom and dad who both are hard core IFBs, how old is the earth? They replied “millions” of years old. Now of course my mom and dad do not believe in evolution and just b/c they believed the earth was “millions” of years old doesn’t mean God will “judge” them. They like I, were just deceived while we were in grammar school.

You put a kid whose parents only go to church on Easter and Christmas, but “believe” in God and whose parents are more involved with their “country club” status than what their kid is being taught and you will have a kid who is convinced that there is no God who will judge some, we just evolved and religion is just a way to “control” someone with fear. I’ve seen it happen.

 

[Thankful]

Wow, some of the views of evolution on a Baptists Message Board are quite disturbing. I read the profiles of those and you say you’re Baptist, but I would have to question. That’s just my opinion.

It seems that you are very opinionated for someone who seems to be "still searching".

First, you start out with science teachers, then you go on to parents who belong to the country club. Perhaps you should read a little more and search a little more before you start bashing other people for their beliefs. Telling people that they are not good Christians, they are fools, they are liars, rather strong language.

When I asked my 14 year old public school taught granddaughter if she were taught evolution in her science class, she really didn't know what I was talking about.

I have not had a chance to ask the two older ones because they are very busy with exams and other school projects this week.

I did ask my son and he really can't remember how his teacher taught him, but he did say, it seemed that there were more important things to be considered when becoming a doctor.

It is a shame that you had an atheist for a teacher, but not all teachers are atheist.


Furthermore, we have one of the largest museums of natural history at our university and WOW, those dinasours were really big.

Now before you start yelling at me, I believe in the one true God who created this earth and man and I certainly don't have all the answers. I don't have to have all the answers. I have faith in God and trust Him.

 

[john6:63]

Thankful:

It has appears we have gotten off on the wrong foot. I am outspoken and you will have to “read between the lines” with my posts. I’m not bashing all science teachers nor am I bashing all country club members. This is no shock to anyone here; some parents do not know or even care what is being taught in our schools.

Evolution was taught to your son if he remembers or not. He sure wasn’t taught creation! And the little shy kid in the corner whose parents had more important things going on in their lives to care whether this child went to church was persuaded that we “evolved” and is possibly now an atheist and separated for God b/c of this. You see where I ‘m going with this?

I started this thread on a religious board to get an idea what God fearing people had to say about evolution being taught in our public school systems. I am amazed at how some think they can intermingle evolution and the Bible and it is ok.

God and His son Jesus Christ are being stripped from our society. Thanks to the liberals along with the ACLU. When I was in school we used to have a “moment of silence” a politically correct term for prayer. Guess what, this doesn’t happen any more. The ACLU has succeeded in getting rid of anything that pertains to Christianity in our public school systems. We weren’t even allowed to say a prayer at our graduation! No more 10 commandments in our courtrooms. (Again you need to read into my message, your school may have a moment of silence, but mark my words, and as soon as a kid is “offended” it will come to a stop!)

Of course we can have prayer and Bible study groups in school, but it better be before or after school. Not during!

Did you know they want to take the words “God” out of the pledge? Did you know that at the Air Force academy they are not allowed to say grace before meals! Did you know that when my family and I say grace in a public restaurant someone is being offended? And yes we get some dirty looks. Just as they ban smoking (which I don’t do) in restaurants, they’ll ban our family from thanking God for our many blessings.

Now to the part of me “searching.” The profile asks me to choose a denomination. “Searching” can simply mean, “searching” for a church/denomination to call home. I’m not going to heaven when I die b/c I’m a “Baptist” “Methodist” etc…etc… I’m a sinner. I’m going to heaven b/c of what Jesus Christ done for you and me on that cross on Calvary. When one dies and their standing at the pearly gates and they ask Saint Peter “Where are all the Baptists? Where are all the Methodists?” He’s going to look at them dumbfounded. You ask him where are all the “Christians” and he’s going to smile and say “Those we have!”

 

[Johnv]

There is NO middle ground when it comes to evolution. I’m sorry, but there’s not. There are NO “good Christians” who believes in evolution.

I couldn't disagree more.

I'm a faithful born again Christian. Anyone who knows me is aware tha my heart is on fire for the Lord. I used to believe in a literal six day creation, but after years of examining the evidence for myself, I now believe that it's possible for God to have used an evolutionary process to create life on earth.

This is an old arguement. We as a Christian community fought it when we were told that the earth wasn't flat, when we were told that the earth revolved around the sun, and even as recently as whether or not other stars had planets. So far, we've been wrong, and science has been right. Why? Is it because our bibles were wrong? No, the bible was right, but our interpretation of the Bible was wrong.

 

[john6:63]

Johnv:

Your heart is on fire for the Lord and that’s awesome. Let me pose this. Jesus always spoke in parables. He always said that this is a parable. The Holy Sprit didn’t leave these for the reader to decide. Jesus walked on water. It’s a fact. God didn’t allow His son Jesus to stay buried. He raised him form the dead. It’s a fact. When God commanded Noah to gather “every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.” That also includes dinosaurs. They didn’t have to been big ones; they could’ve been babies, as long as they were male and female. It’s a fact.

Don’t let Thermodynamics suggest that the earth couldn’t have been made in 6 literal days. You forget whom we are dealing with. God. Within whom ALL things is possible. If God meant for it to be written as such as to leave it to the individual to decide, He would have written it that way. The Bible, all 66 books, is verbally inspired, without error, and infallible in all its affirmations. If God said 6 days then it was 6 days.

You’re losing me that we have misinterpreted the Bible. The Bible was fact long before science was born.

In Revelation there is a verse where it says “four corners of the world…” many thought that it meant that the world is flat….wrong.
(Isa. 40:22) “It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth….” The Holy Sprit said the earth was in a circle shape or round. Fact. God gets it right every time!

(Psa 19:4-6)”……In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race. His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.” This verse says that the sun revolves around the earth. Fact. Again Gods gets it right. I could go on…..

The only thing science has done johnv is confirm the Bible as fact.

Do I believe that God created things and said “ok evolve!” Heck no. You can say that when my wife was pregnant that our son evolved within her womb. I would say you’re absolutely correct……it’s called micro evolution johnv it’s been proven fact! But you can get a cat from a dog johnv, …….it’s called macro evolution and it’s never or never will be fact. You have to learn the difference between the two.

[ May 06, 2003, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: john6:63 ]

 

[Charlesga]

There is NO middle ground when it comes to evolution. I’m sorry, but there’s not. There are NO “good Christians” who believes in evolution.

Respectfully, I totally disagree with your very judgemental statement. I'm glad you have met all Christians who believe evolution is a possibility and evaluated their Christian walk, life, and committment...

Charles

 

[JonathanDT]

Originally posted by john6:63:
Does the 1st law of thermodynamics contradict creation? Nope. God created the “universe.”
Uni = single or one
Verse = a sentence
“Universe” = a single spoken sentence; hence “And God said, let there be…”

Actually, yes, it does contradict the first law. The First Law of Thermodynamics is that matter cannot be created or destroyed. It's obvious God created matter in creating the universe, thus breaking the law. Not that it matters, God is obviously powerful enough to do anything he wants.

Originally posted by Thankful:
Furthermore, we have one of the largest museums of natural history at our university and WOW, those dinasours were really big.

??? Dinosaurs don't contradict Creation or the Bible in any way whatsoever. In fact, Job mentions dinosaurs! Now how could he do that if they died out millions of years ago? Hmmmm...

Personally, I believe in 6 day Creation, but honestly it really doesn't matter how the earth got here. The important part is that either with Creation or Evolution, the need for an intelligent, supernatural Designer in both theories is blatantly obvious.

 

[Johnv]

Don’t let Thermodynamics suggest that the earth couldn’t have been made in 6 literal days.
I don't. Instead, I look at the vast body of evidence which tell me the earth is older than the YEC community thinks it is.

When God commanded Noah to gather “every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.” That also includes dinosaurs. They didn’t have to been big ones; they could’ve been babies, as long as they were male and female. It’s a fact.
The story of Noah has nothing to do with Gen1.

The Bible, all 66 books, is verbally inspired, without error, and infallible in all its affirmations. If God said 6 days then it was 6 days.
You confuse inspiration with dictation. God inspired the bible, but did not dictate it. While inspirationally perfect and without error, it was written by falible imperfect men. Those falible imperfect men wrote quite a bit of the biblical writings metaphorically. Revelation and Daniel are good examples. Why is Genesis not? Genesis need not be a literal account, to be the inspired word of God.

You’re losing me that we have misinterpreted the Bible.
We've misinterpreted the Bible lots of times in our history, there's no shame in admitting that.

The Bible was fact long before science was born.
You confuse truth with fact. They are not synonymous. The bible is 100% true. It is not be 100% fact, and was not intended to be 100% fact. Some books were written to be factual accounts (such as the Gospels), while others were not (such as , Song of Solomon, and Psalms). Jesus' own parables are not factual accounts, yet they are truth.

“It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth….” The Holy Sprit said the earth was in a circle shape or round. Fact. God gets it right every time!
This is a clear misinterpretation. The Hebrew word interpreted as "circle" in the KJV is chuwg which refers to a flat disc, like the surface of a compass. They believed the earth to be flat at the time.

micro evolution ... it’s been proven fact!
Yes, it has. 100 years ago, creation literalists said that microevolution was also against God's word. They were wrong.

macro evolution... never will be fact.
It's currently a theory. A theory that happens to best fit the factual evidence. It cannot be proven fact until it is observed. It would take many generations to observe the smallest change. I don't think of it as a fact. I think if it as a good theory. And as such, it should be taught in science classes.

You have to learn the difference between the two.
I do. But you'll find that it's often YEC folks putting words in the mouths of non-YEC folks. I've seen it even amongst YEC vs OEC, so it comes as no surprise to me.

 

[Johnv]

In fact, Job mentions dinosaurs! Now how could he do that if they died out millions of years ago?
Here we go again. Please cite the verse where Job mentions dinosaurs.

The important part is that either with Creation or Evolution, the need for an intelligent, supernatural Designer in both theories is blatantly obvious.
I couldn't agree with you more there. You said it well.

 

[Charlesga]

Personally, I believe in 6 day Creation, but honestly it really doesn't matter how the earth got here. The important part is that either with Creation or Evolution, the need for an intelligent, supernatural Designer in both theories is blatantly obvious.

Amen! God did it, and that is what matters!

 

[j_barner2000]

I had some trouble in 1984. I almost was flunked out in Science because my teacher knew I was a 100% creationist. He gave us a final and the essay question was "How did man come to be in his present state?" Explain your answer from the formation of the universe to our present stage of development." I remember it because I still have the test. I proceeded to explain creation, the fall of man, our sinful condition, and God's awesome grace, through Jesus. I got an f. The teachers written comment was," Mr. Barner, we deal in facts in the scientific community. Your insistance of clinging to religous unprovable myth is unacceptable..." I appealed to the principal and he said the grade stands. Fortunately, my father, when he heard of it, went to the principal and insisted that they prove evolution and disprove creation. Of course, they could not. My wife is homeschooling our girls. don't get me started on the social/politically correct things they are trying to teach.

 

[Thankful]

John6:36,

I continue to be amazed at how you can state what my granddaughter had to do to pass science and what my son was taught in school.

You cannot know what they were taught or what they do in order to pass a class.

I am having trouble reading between the lines in your post. I can't seem to find any.

Just do not judge me, my family, my public schools or measure them because of your standards or experiences.

Sometimes, we tend to limit the power of God by our own beliefs.

 

[john6:63]

Thankful

Then it’s settled. Your granddaughter and son used a science book that never mentioned the age of the earth or evolution.

And as soon as I find a job in Oklahoma I’m moving.

 

[john6:63]

j_barner2000

God bless you and your family. The whole purpose of this thread was to bring to the attention the trash that is being forced on our children at school. My wife was refused a letter of recommendation from two organic professors b/c she believed in creation. Like one needs to believe in evolution to fill a tooth….give me a break!

Johnv:

So (if) the Bible was merely “misinterpreted” you know “circle” as really meaning “flat” and such. I wonder Johnv how much of the Bible is “misinterpreted.” When Jesus said “…..no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” Was Jesus serious! Was Jesus merely misunderstood? When Jesus spoke those words in Aramaic was “cometh” merely “misinterpreted?” Surely there is more that one way to enter the Kingdom of Heaven Johnv, surely. Nope, there is only one-way to enter the Kingdom of Heaven and that is through our faith and trust in Jesus Christ.

Did God really forsake His only Son Jesus Christ in (Matt. 27:46) ….Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?…My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?” Surely not, it’s got to be a misinterpretation. Sorry, God did in fact forsake his only son. In all the scripture Jesus always referred to God as “Father” in this one verse He referrers to His father as “God.” Why? B/C Jesus became sin and His blood was shed so that we may have eternal life. And we all know from studying scripture God hates sin. You will then notice that in (Luke 23:46) Jesus then refers to God as “Father” again…. “Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.” This separation was only for a moment.

Seems to me Johnv you’re really struggling with who our creator really is. No part of the Bible is misinterpreted. Science may try to spin some words around to disprove creation and you’re playing right into their hands. Nothing has evolved, no missing link has been found. If the earth where a millions of years old, we’d be in a population crisis. The sun is getting smaller, the moon is drifting father away from the earth. The earth isn’t millions of years old. The flood created the Grand Canyon, The remains of all the animals that were killed during the flood is now used as fuel. The flood created all the layers we see on the walls of the Grand Canyon. Since the flood 4400 years ago our population is right where it needs to be.

A museum guide said that the age of the layers are known by the fossils and 10 minutes later says the age of the fossil is determined by the age of the layer…huh? That’s called circular reasoning buddy. The devil isn’t in Hell. He’s roaming this earth deceiving many and is quite successful.

 

[AprilDawn]

I remember being taught evolution in High School. I was lucky enough to have a teacher that when it came to exam time said if I wrote God instead of Big Bang he would not fail me. I realize this is not common practice. My son now 7 loves dinosaurs,and wants to be an archeologist. I'm torn between being a proud mama and worrying about the exposure to the earth in millions of years theory. I believe the Bible and have no problem what so ever with God creating the world in 6 days. I mean He is God! I have also studied the differences of opinions on both sides. I still believe in Creation. I pray my son will become an archeologist that seeks to add even more proof that the Bible is right! And I will fight the school if they try to get in the way!

 

[Thankful]

Originally posted by john6:63:
Thankful

Then it’s settled. Your granddaughter and son used a science book that never mentioned the age of the earth or evolution.

And as soon as I find a job in Oklahoma I’m moving.

Do you realize that you go from one extreme to the other?

Oklahoma is a good place to live....Lots of Baptists and other Christians.


(Edited to add left-out word)

[ May 06, 2003, 04:21 PM: Message edited by: Thankful ]

 

[john6:63]

Thankful

I don't doubt that for one second....

 

[john6:63]

AprilDawn

I will pray for you and your son. There are a lot of reputable Christian based colleges out there, but some will still try and sprinkle a little science into creation as Johnv does. Your son should be ok at one of these schools though. Science used in the way God intended it to be used is awesome.

I go to church with a geologist he said while in college they went to their local super market and bought an apple. When they carbon dated it, it was determined that the apple was over 900 million years old. We laughed until I was out of breath!

 

[Deacon]

I go to church with a geologist he said while in college they went to their local super market and bought an apple. When they carbon dated it, it was determined that the apple was over 900 million years old. We laughed until I was out of breath!

John3, you better check the credentials of that geologist fellow, I think he's a fraud. Carbon dating isn't used for things in the multi-million year range.