Scriptural training and correction or violence?

were they not the children of God?

 

Jesus did not keep the Law of Moses. He is God the Law was to keep from sinning. Jesus is without sin, always has been, always will be

 

I think you are comparing apples and oranges. The money changers were evil men who were making a mockery of God. Not sure how this applies or compares to a two year old who undoes a roll of tp in the bathroom </font>[/QUOTE]And eloidalmanutha, I would not spank a two year-old for mischief either. Spanking, in the way I would understand its usage, is only for willful and defiant behavior. It is not my first resort, and it is not to punish accidents, mischief, or irresponsibility.

Of course, I wonder...was Jesus trying to "beat the devil" out of those moneychangers?

 

Spanking, handled properly, is a good tool to help in the nurture and training of children.

Some people will mishandle spanking their kids. They will do it in a way that is harmful and cruel. Nothing will stop them from doing that except to be prohibited from spanking.

 

Jesus did not keep the Law of Moses. He is God the Law was to keep from sinning. Jesus is without sin, always has been, always will be </font>[/QUOTE]The law of Moses was handed down from God above. Jesus did keep that law.

 

Had Jesus not kept the law of Moses handed down from Heaven, Jesus would not have been the sinless sacrifice.

 

Jesus became sin for us.

2 Corinthians 5:21 For &lt;gar&gt; he hath made &lt;poieo&gt; him to be sin &lt;hamartia&gt; for &lt;huper&gt; us &lt;hemon&gt;, who &lt;ho&gt; knew &lt;ginosko&gt; no &lt;me&gt; sin &lt;hamartia&gt;; that &lt;hina&gt; we &lt;hemeis&gt; might be made &lt;ginomai&gt; the righteousness &lt;dikaiosune&gt; of God &lt;theos&gt; in &lt;en&gt; him &lt;autos&gt;.

 

And eloidalmanutha, I would not spank a two year-old for mischief either. Spanking, in the way I would understand its usage, is only for willful and defiant behavior. It is not my first resort, and it is not to punish accidents, mischief, or irresponsibility.

Of course, I wonder...was Jesus trying to "beat the devil" out of those moneychangers? [/QB][/QUOTE]

ok . . . I am trying to get a handle on this - you say spanking for defiance, but I hear others say spanking for misbehaving as well. is this accurate?

yeah, I think He was

 

Bart,

I think he may be stuck on the 5 questions above. I don't understand why he is able to use adults as examples and no one else can?

 

huh? explain - please

 

you are not making sense, but I will try to answer you. In Heb 12, God is used as a Father figure to us as His children, likened to a Father of a child. In God's view, He sees us as children as we see our children as children. He does not see us as adults. Jesus refers to us as children/lambs. John refers to us as children [1John 1,2,3] It is standard understanding that we are the children of God - His adopted sons and daughters through the blood of Jesus.

I am not trying to be difficult, but I have no clue what you are talking about in your numbered statements. You have to quote me or I am lost.

1) ?

2) ?

3) ?

4) what would I do with an evil child that makes a mockery of God? I would pray for him/her. I would not beat the tar out of them. I have had to deal with several teenage foster children. One of them was a Muslim who hated the christian "God". I did nothing to him, but beg the agency to get him out of my house. after 5 weeks they finally removed him. until that point I simply showed him kindness and compassion. I was not afraid of him, although I was told I should be fearful. I shared the gospel with him, but he would not listen.

5) not sure what you are talking about. I do not "restrain" as a discipline - you must be thinking of someone else.

 

You have brought up an interesting question. I do not believe that scripture says that Jesus had to keep the Law in order to be the sinless Lamb. Jesus is God. He did not have to keep Torah, as He could not sin. Torah was given so Israel knew what was sin and were commanded to obey to keep from sinning. He fulfilled Torah because He was sinless, not because He "kept" Torah.

If you look carefully at Jesus' ministry - He did in fact "break" Torah But that would be a different thread, before we totally get derailed

 

At least twice Jesus is mentioned as an ensample or example to the disciples. Don't you think being born a Jew, that He was held to the Jewish Laws handed down from Heaven?

Where did Jesus break His own law? If He did, then He was not the sinless lamb. For sin is the transgression of the Law.

 

originally stated on page 5:

eloidalmanutha:
"In Heb 12, God is used as a Father figure to us as His children, likened to a Father of a child. In God's view, He sees us as children as we see our children as children. He does not see us as adults. Jesus refers to us as children/lambs. John refers to us as children [1John 1,2,3] It is standard understanding that we are the children of God - His adopted sons and daughters through the blood of Jesus."

 

so then, let me ask you. If Jesus kept Torah perfectly, then did He sacrifice a lamb for Himself for sin [required]? Or did He give a sacrifice for a peace offering [required]? a burnt offering [required], an oblation offering [required]? did He tithe the mint to Himself? it was required for the father to bring a sacrifice for his family - did he bring one for Jesus? did Jesus have to offer a sacrifice for Himself at the feasts of the Lord [required]?

Show me some scripture that says Jesus had to keep Torah to be the sinless Lamb. thanx.

 

Again, sin is the transgression of the law. If Jesus broke the law (the Torah), then He sinned and therefore could not be the spotless and sinless Lamb of God.

 

He touched a dead person - did not go to the temple for the ritual cleansing.

He added to Torah.