Scripture or Chafer

[OldRegular]

Old Regular,
Unfortunately, I have not read everything you have posted on this board since you joined, nor do I intend to. However, I am participating on this thread. Answering the question I have asked would have taken less effort for you than your evasions have taken. Would you do the courtesy of answering my question?

You said "all people of all time who make up the redeemed are in the body of Christ". And you said that Ephesians 2 supports this. What statement in Ephesians 2 supports your view? Please answer this question.

You might read Ephesians 2:11-19, and then

You might read Romans 11:11-24, and then

You might read Revelation 21: 9-14, and then

You might read Hebrews 11: 8-16; 39, 40, and then

You might read Galatians 4:16, 29, and then

You might read 1 Corinthians 15:22.

 

[Pastor Larry]

That is the very type of response that Jim addressed. You are pretending that we don't believe Scripture, or that we have never thought of those passages. The truth is that there is nothing in those passages that requires your view. Those are all passages that address the church, where we all agree Jews and Gentiles are one.

I don't think you understand the difference between an argument and an assertion. An assertion simply "asserts" something without an attempt to provide evidence and logic in favor of it. An argument attempts to support an assertion by amassing "arguments" that use Scripture, exegesis, and logic.l

You have made a lot of assertions, including ones like dispensationalists are false teachers, don't believe the Bible, etc. Those simply don't pass muster.

 

[HankD]

That question is raised by Ryrie in his book Dispensationalism, page 130 Given that most of the discussion of salvation addresses the time after God's call of Abraham it is a valid question. However, I believe that all people of all time who constitute the redeemed are saved the same way, by the Grace of God and are included in the same body, the body of Jesus Christ.

I would say we are really close OR.

The only thing I would change in your statement is "the body of Christ" to "the bride of Christ".

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

...

9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

...

12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

...

14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

Here in the final words of God's written revelation to mankind picturing the eternal state, God still makes a distinction between Israel and the Church.

Will we at that time all drink of the same Spirit? Yes of course (or so I believe).

1 Corinthians 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

They were baptized into Moses.
But we:

Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Nevertheless, concerning the Bride of His Son, God in Revelation 21 makes a distinction between Israel and the Church.

So, He is Lord and master over all.

HankD​

 

[OldRegular]

Nevertheless, concerning the Bride of His Son, God in Revelation 21 makes a distinction between Israel and the Church.

So, He is Lord and master over all.

HankD[/LEFT]

There is a difference between national Israel and the Church but Spiritual Israel and the Church are one as Paul demonstrates in his contrast of the olive trees [Romans 11]. Please note that the good olive tree into which the believing Gentiles were grafted into, and unblieving Jews were broken off, preceded the incarnation.

 

[HankD]

There is a difference between national Israel and the Church but Spiritual Israel and the Church are one as Paul demonstrates in his contrast of the olive trees [Romans 11]. Please note that the good olive tree into which the believing Gentiles were grafted into, and unblieving Jews were broken off, preceded the incarnation.

I agree OR that we are one in Christ, yet God does makes a distinction between us and they in His Word in Revelation 21.

Ezekiel 43:1 Afterward he brought me to the gate, even the gate that looketh toward the east:
2 And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east: and his voice was like a noise of many waters: and the earth shined with his glory.
3 And it was according to the appearance of the vision which I saw, even according to the vision that I saw when I came to destroy the city: and the visions were like the vision that I saw by the river Chebar; and I fell upon my face.
4 And the glory of the LORD came into the house by the way of the gate whose prospect is toward the east.
5 So the spirit took me up, and brought me into the inner court; and, behold, the glory of the LORD filled the house.
6 And I heard him speaking unto me out of the house; and the man stood by me.​

7 And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever.


HankD

 

[OldRegular]

I agree OR that we are one in Christ, yet God does makes a distinction between us and they in His Word in Revelation 21.

HankD

I can't see it. In the description of the metaphorical description of the bride of Jesus Christ, the Church, as the New Jerusalem both Israel [the names of the 12 tribes] and the Church [the names of the 12 Apostles] are part of the New Jerusalem.

 

[HankD]

I can't see it. In the description of the metaphorical description of the bride of Jesus Christ, the Church, as the New Jerusalem both Israel [the names of the 12 tribes] and the Church [the names of the 12 Apostles] are part of the New Jerusalem.

OK, but most folks probably see that we are down to quibbling.

OR, I have a passage (actually 2) of which I would like your assessment as to a metaphor or not.

Luke 22

28 Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.
29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.​

Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.​

So here Jesus says "in my kingdom" then says that in this kingdom that is His are the 12 tribes of Israel sitting on 12 thrones.​

Note also that Jesus makes this statement after the revelation concerning His "Church" in Matthew 16.​

So my question is where and what is this "my kingdom" of Israel Jesus speaks of in Luke 22 and Matthew 19 where the resurrected Apostles (an assumption I realize, but it hasn't happened yet that I know of) will judge the 12 tribes of Israel.​

Clearly in Matthew Jesus also makes a distinction between Israel and the Church.​

If in this kingdom, which includes the 12 tribes of Israel, these 12 tribes need to be judged then it seems apparent that they are mortal or at best carnal and in either case not resurrected and not the Church.​

Or in your view are these passages a metaphor and/or allegorical?
(a sincere question, not a taunt).​

HankD​