It will be a disappointing day the day Bob Ryan might stop handing out hints etc and point out my 'rant', because that day a wonderful showcase of Seventh Day Adventist 'thinking' (Note I put 'thinking' between apostophies.) will have got too dusty to see through its panes.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
SDA - inspired writings?
- Thread starter targus
- Start date
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
B+ ranting -- (and of course you are improving in that area)
But an f- substantive response to the quote from John 14.
Can you be convinced or prompted in any way to "respond to the point" as raised from scripture?
Today?
Ever?
"The point" is that Christ claims "I GO to the Father" as in a level of "presence" anticipated that He did not enjoy BEFORE going. Even MORE so when He says "My God my God why hast thou forsaken Me?". And so When Christ is RAISED from the tomb He can rightly state that "I have not yet ascended to the Father". That much-anticipated event had not YET taken place.
Get it? (It is important in that case to stay focused on the point)
in Christ,
Bob
BobRyan said:
GE
Thank you, BobRyan,
You supplied us with an answer as straight as an arrow. It was not my imagination, it was not my intelligence that noticed and understood exactly what you here state as your belief and confession of faith. For no moment think I did not 'get the point'. I got it long ago, even before I have read Mrs White. I learnt it from you, and I am a good learner. I got the point!
I believe everybody else had too.
Bob Ryan,
""The point" is that Christ claims "I GO to the Father" as in a level of "presence" anticipated that He did not enjoy BEFORE going. Even MORE so when He says "My God my God why hast thou forsaken Me?". And so When Christ is RAISED from the tomb He can rightly state that "I have not yet ascended to the Father". That much-anticipated event had not YET taken place."
GE:
Now tell us, dear Bob Ryan, what poison have you smeared over that 'point'? While Jesus in the body of His flesh had not yet ascended to the Father, and He still had to ascend 'to heaven' in the body of his risen and glorified flesh, in order to "be with you always" (Mt28:20), was He is the Father's Presence? Was Jesus the Sheaf Waved Before the LORD, or was he the First Sheaf waved before the cry of an angel in the sight of mortals - in other words, was Jesus God, and no mere created being, in and through his resurrection from the dead? Are you a Neo-Docetist?
Can you answer my question (which I have given you the answer for) Who, raised Christ from the dead? Is it because you are a Docetist you refuse to answer? Do you believe the Divinity and the Deity of Jesus Christ?
""The point" is that Christ claims "I GO to the Father" as in a level of "presence" anticipated that He did not enjoy BEFORE going. Even MORE so when He says "My God my God why hast thou forsaken Me?". And so When Christ is RAISED from the tomb He can rightly state that "I have not yet ascended to the Father". That much-anticipated event had not YET taken place."
GE:
Now tell us, dear Bob Ryan, what poison have you smeared over that 'point'? While Jesus in the body of His flesh had not yet ascended to the Father, and He still had to ascend 'to heaven' in the body of his risen and glorified flesh, in order to "be with you always" (Mt28:20), was He is the Father's Presence? Was Jesus the Sheaf Waved Before the LORD, or was he the First Sheaf waved before the cry of an angel in the sight of mortals - in other words, was Jesus God, and no mere created being, in and through his resurrection from the dead? Are you a Neo-Docetist?
Can you answer my question (which I have given you the answer for) Who, raised Christ from the dead? Is it because you are a Docetist you refuse to answer? Do you believe the Divinity and the Deity of Jesus Christ?
Typing error, which ended in no error, but in most sublime Truth!: "... was He is the Father's Presence? ..." In fact yes, while Jesus in resurrection from the dead was in the Father's Presence, HE WAS, THE FATHER'S PRESENCE, HIS FULL AND ONLY PRESENCE! Therefore I shall not edit or 'correct' that typing, but leave it as it is.
BR:
"Amazingly in all the GE "but Ellen White said.." smoke fury and sound we get NO response to the fact of Scripture raised regarding the high Priesthood of Christ taking place post cross."
GE:
The same sort of avoiding the issue - of running away from the truth, as with your abuse of John 14:28. As with this text no one has an issue Jesus had not ascended before He ascended, so here with Christ's Priesthood no one except Bob Ryan has an issue with Christ being High Priest also after He had been High Priest.
Therefore you must ask yourself the question, nobody else who have no problem with Jesus having been their High Priest - in Truth, having been High Priest of the Most High God since eternity according to the Law of Indestructable LIFE!
"Amazingly in all the GE "but Ellen White said.." smoke fury and sound we get NO response to the fact of Scripture raised regarding the high Priesthood of Christ taking place post cross."
GE:
The same sort of avoiding the issue - of running away from the truth, as with your abuse of John 14:28. As with this text no one has an issue Jesus had not ascended before He ascended, so here with Christ's Priesthood no one except Bob Ryan has an issue with Christ being High Priest also after He had been High Priest.
Therefore you must ask yourself the question, nobody else who have no problem with Jesus having been their High Priest - in Truth, having been High Priest of the Most High God since eternity according to the Law of Indestructable LIFE!
But herein in fact you confirmingly expose your very error and deceit, because If Jesus could not have been High Priest while on earth, He could not have been God on earth -- and especially so according to your thinking, in his death and after his death while according to you not in the Presence of God the Father. For to be High Priest of Almighty God He had to become Man -- this same Jesus whom man crucified; this same Jesus Whom God had raised; this same Jesus Who from eternity was with God and was God, and always had been and has been, Mediator and Intercessor - God of the Substance of God as the Father is of the Substance of God. You divorce Christ' Priesthood from His Divinity as were His Priesthood a prize merely and no Condition for having made atonement of sin. You divide Christ and High Priesthood of Christ; you divide Christ and God. And of all things impossible for God, you place them - Christ and God - in separate compartments of time and metrical space. What absurdity; nay what blasphemy!
With this 'priesthood'-story of yours, you thought you had a sword in hand; while you had a snake that shall bite you, in hand.
We may thank BobRyan for this Quote:
Heb 9
11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation;
12 and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.
When was this? "when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come".
Who, was this? "Christ, appeared, as, a high priest" (Then He had to be High priest.)
How, "He entered"
How did He enter? "through His own blood"
Where was that? "the holy place "
Which 'Holy Place'? "the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation", which was Christ in resurrection from the dead by the hand of God the Father.
Heb 9
11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation;
12 and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.
When was this? "when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come".
Who, was this? "Christ, appeared, as, a high priest" (Then He had to be High priest.)
How, "He entered"
How did He enter? "through His own blood"
Where was that? "the holy place "
Which 'Holy Place'? "the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation", which was Christ in resurrection from the dead by the hand of God the Father.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
That would be "me" quoting scripture -- paying attention to what it says and accepting it.
That would be "youi" ranting.
See?
The point is that when Jesus is raised and says "I have NOT YET ascended to the Father" -- "he meant it".
John 20
17 Jesus said to her, ""Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father[/b]; but go to My brethren and say to them, "I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'''
Hint: Whining and ranting about Bob or Adventists or Ellen White or ... is not going to "make this text go away".
Bob Ryan:
"John 14:28
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
Hint: The answer to which is NOT of the form "but Mrs White said..." -- rather you need to "deal with scripture" and respond to the actual point raised."
It seems that your entire case depends on "ignoring the text" and simply "ranting instead".
John 17
13"But now I come to You; and these things I speak in the world so that they may have My joy made full in themselves.
14"I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Having told them that He WOULD "go to the Father" we then see the significance of His Word in John 20 that He is going at that point as predicted.
John 20
17 Jesus said to her, ""Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father[/b]; but go to My brethren and say to them, "I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'''
As much as you may now prefer to resort once again to low-brow ranting and whining -- why not address the Bible point "instead"??
in Christ,
Bob
Last edited by a moderator:
ENOUGH WITH THE ALL CAPS AND UNNECESSARILY LARGE PRINT, IT LOOKS LIKE YOU ARE ALL SHOUTING AT EACHOTHER!
Just asking, are any of the people posting here SDA at all? Otherwise, without someone who actually believes SDA theology wheighing in, this is likely to be a battle of the straw men.
Let me put it this way. I use to read little blerps by baptists writers all the time about Jehovah's witnesses. Eventually, as many do, I became convinced it was time to do intellectual battle with them... well it's not hard to best someone intellectually who doesn't know what he's talking about. Since all of the writings were written by propagandists instead of those who actually believed it, they took a few... liberties... it turns out. My first discussion with a Jehovah's Witness left me having learned more than him, me looking like an idiot, him not thinking much of my ideas, and me resenting all those stupid baptist pamphlets, supposedly meant to help ward off the reasoning of the enemy. Only after talking with that man for a couple hours a day, did I begin to understand where he was comeing from, and then, I was able to make him start thinking about his ideas. Yes, he forced me to think about mine, but guess what... I'm human to, I to need to sometimes re-think, we ALL do.
I WOULD PROPOSE IF N
NE HERE IS AN SDA, SINCE THE QUESTION WAS POSED TO THEM, DISCUSSION BE POSPONED UNTIL ONE SHOWS UP... PERHAPS THIS CAN BE STICKIED.
Wow. That's actually kinda fun... sorry, couldn't resist.
Just asking, are any of the people posting here SDA at all? Otherwise, without someone who actually believes SDA theology wheighing in, this is likely to be a battle of the straw men.
Let me put it this way. I use to read little blerps by baptists writers all the time about Jehovah's witnesses. Eventually, as many do, I became convinced it was time to do intellectual battle with them... well it's not hard to best someone intellectually who doesn't know what he's talking about. Since all of the writings were written by propagandists instead of those who actually believed it, they took a few... liberties... it turns out. My first discussion with a Jehovah's Witness left me having learned more than him, me looking like an idiot, him not thinking much of my ideas, and me resenting all those stupid baptist pamphlets, supposedly meant to help ward off the reasoning of the enemy. Only after talking with that man for a couple hours a day, did I begin to understand where he was comeing from, and then, I was able to make him start thinking about his ideas. Yes, he forced me to think about mine, but guess what... I'm human to, I to need to sometimes re-think, we ALL do.
I WOULD PROPOSE IF N
NE HERE IS AN SDA, SINCE THE QUESTION WAS POSED TO THEM, DISCUSSION BE POSPONED UNTIL ONE SHOWS UP... PERHAPS THIS CAN BE STICKIED.Wow. That's actually kinda fun... sorry, couldn't resist.
What have you actually said? Nothing! There is a subject discussed here, which you do not like, because you are caught behind the door. At Least BobRyan (who is a Seveventh Day Adventist) tries put his case with Scripture - which this discussion is for. What are you doing in this conversation if it isn't to your liking? There are people who find this discussion mighty important to them - and they are more than just BobRyan and me. You're welcome if you have something to contribute. Don't show off your own righteousness, this is not the place. And it's not for your entertainment.
Last edited by a moderator:
"SDA - Inspired writings", is the name of this thread.
I have one question that will settle the issue, one question directly as if asked from the pages of these very writings: Who, raised Christ from the dead? Now is it too difficult a question to answer? Then let me change my question and ask, Did the Father raise Jesus from the dead?
You see, the answer - from these writings and from nowhere else - will tell, are these writings inspired? And if inspired, inspired by whom? God or the devil?
I have one question that will settle the issue, one question directly as if asked from the pages of these very writings: Who, raised Christ from the dead? Now is it too difficult a question to answer? Then let me change my question and ask, Did the Father raise Jesus from the dead?
You see, the answer - from these writings and from nowhere else - will tell, are these writings inspired? And if inspired, inspired by whom? God or the devil?
Just last night I read a Seventh day Adventist bragging there are 20 million Seventh Day Adventists believing the SDA- inspired writings. Therefore, all you who don't care about this matter, stand aside, there are 20m SDAs and there are for sure no less than 500 million other Christians who might like to know. And you who are worried about the millions who are to loose out on salvation, don't we have a problem with some souls right at hand?
Last edited by a moderator:
Double posted
Last edited by a moderator:
BR:
"WHEN? When He ascended "to the Father" (Notice John 20 -- yet again). That is WHEN He appeared as our High Priest."
GE:
No Bob Ryan. You break my heart. Yours is a another gospel that is not the Gospel.
"WHEN?" Christ appeared our High Priest when born a Child; He appeared our High Priest every step of His earthly ministry; He appeared our High Priest when He made Sacrifice of Himself; He appeared High Priest when giving His Spirit into His Father's very own hands; but above all He appeared our High Priest when in resurrection from the dead He made offering of his Sacrifice "Before the LORD". And ever since He for no moment and at no stage of His "Intermediatory Office" (John Owen) has not been, our High Priest and High Priest of the Most High God. At no point in time after His resurrection has Jesus not been both Priest and High Priest. That is WHEN and HOW, and WHERE Christ appeared as our High Priest: Quote:"When God raised Him from the dead", Then, was He, quote: "Perfected", our High Priest.
This is the Gospel of Jesus Christ. If anyone is offended by it, then be offended. But I, am not ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, because it is the Power --- of God! unto salvation of this lost but saved soul, me!
"WHEN? When He ascended "to the Father" (Notice John 20 -- yet again). That is WHEN He appeared as our High Priest."
GE:
No Bob Ryan. You break my heart. Yours is a another gospel that is not the Gospel.
"WHEN?" Christ appeared our High Priest when born a Child; He appeared our High Priest every step of His earthly ministry; He appeared our High Priest when He made Sacrifice of Himself; He appeared High Priest when giving His Spirit into His Father's very own hands; but above all He appeared our High Priest when in resurrection from the dead He made offering of his Sacrifice "Before the LORD". And ever since He for no moment and at no stage of His "Intermediatory Office" (John Owen) has not been, our High Priest and High Priest of the Most High God. At no point in time after His resurrection has Jesus not been both Priest and High Priest. That is WHEN and HOW, and WHERE Christ appeared as our High Priest: Quote:"When God raised Him from the dead", Then, was He, quote: "Perfected", our High Priest.
This is the Gospel of Jesus Christ. If anyone is offended by it, then be offended. But I, am not ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, because it is the Power --- of God! unto salvation of this lost but saved soul, me!
BR:
"12 but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD,
13 waiting from that time onward UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE A FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET.
14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time[/b] those who are sanctified.
15 And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying,[/font]
Thus "ends" your gaming this point for all this time."
GE
Have I not said in this thread, Jesus by interceding on behalf of the saved, exercises them in sanctification? Well what are, "those who are sanctified"? Did I ever deny Jesus' Mediatory Office? I did not!
When and where and how - exactly - did Christ, "having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD"? These words are telling! You need not look anywhere else: "having offered", He " SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD". Ephesians 1:19f, When God raised Him from the dead and set Him at his own right hand in heavenly realms ... and hath put all things under his feet". Not a seconde later; nowhere else; no other way! In no other office than of High Priest of the Most High God.
Please, Bob Ryan, Please!
"12 but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD,
13 waiting from that time onward UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE A FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET.
14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time[/b] those who are sanctified.
15 And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying,[/font]
Thus "ends" your gaming this point for all this time."
GE
Have I not said in this thread, Jesus by interceding on behalf of the saved, exercises them in sanctification? Well what are, "those who are sanctified"? Did I ever deny Jesus' Mediatory Office? I did not!
When and where and how - exactly - did Christ, "having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD"? These words are telling! You need not look anywhere else: "having offered", He " SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD". Ephesians 1:19f, When God raised Him from the dead and set Him at his own right hand in heavenly realms ... and hath put all things under his feet". Not a seconde later; nowhere else; no other way! In no other office than of High Priest of the Most High God.
Please, Bob Ryan, Please!
Here's another of those speaking-for-itself-texts: "but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself" by courtesy of BobRyan. My comments superfluous! But let me repeat what the text says, "Manifested" - that's 'when' - 'manifested' to do what? "to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself" - that's 'when': Sin was put away the moment, "in the twinkling of an eye", when "the sting of death, sin" with death, was "swallowed up" when, where, how? In Victory! That was, in and with, at, the moment of Jesus' resurrection from the dead! Nowhere else; no other time, no other occasion! Where is the Triumph of Jesus' resurrection if not in his resurrection?