SDA or RCC a Greater Threat?

[mactx]

Double post

 

[Yeshua1]

I would have to say the RCC mainly because they are dangerous in numbers compared to the SDA. Whoever said 5 point Calvinism,,,really. Maybe hyper Calvinism, unless you consider them the same. But this is derailing the OP. Let's stick to that post. Please make another post if you want to bash Calvinism.

Agreed, don't see calvin, Spurgeon, owens,mcArthur, edwards. Sproul into teaching heresy, as both of those other groups do!

 

[Yeshua1]

I believe that I should be considered the greater "threat" than the RCC denomination because I am here posting and the entire RCC denomination is not.

Of course we do have some Catholic posters here - and they may wish to challenge me on that - pointing that they are here posting and the entire SDA denomination is not. I concede that they could wish to make that case, but since they have not done it yet - I will stake my claim first.

So for now - I vote that we should fear me most.:sleeping_2:

in Christ,

Bob

Not afraid of you, more like hoping that the lord opens your eyes to the true Gospel of chrsit, and that he will take off the Ellen white eyeglasses that you see the bible through!

Amd my vote is the RCC, for its MUCH larger, and has MUCH more assests on hand to keep spreading their wrong Gospel message!

 

[BobRyan]

Agreed, don't see calvin, Spurgeon, owens,mcArthur, edwards. Sproul into teaching heresy, as both of those other groups do!

Spurgeon, Sproul , the Baptist Confession of Faith - if 1689 - the Westminster confession of faith all admit to the Bible fact that Ten Commandments begin in Eden with Adam and continue to this very day for the saints.

Interestingly - so also does the RCC and so also do SDAs admit to that Bible teaching.

Glad to see that you are not calling it heresy.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Yeshua1]

Spurgeon, Sproul , the Baptist Confession of Faith - if 1689 - the Westminster confession of faith all admit to the Bible fact that Ten Commandments begin in Eden with Adam and continue to this very day for the saints.

Interestingly - so also does the RCC and so also do SDAs admit to that Bible teaching.

Glad to see that you are not calling it heresy.

in Christ,

Bob

NO! saying tht 5 point calvinism not a heresy, but how the SDA views what salvation process really entails is NOT the Gospel according to paul, but per Ellen White!

 

[BobRyan]

You are free to speculate as you wish. Free will being what it is.

I was simply making the obvious point that there is in fact agreement with some of those you claimed to agree with -

Spurgeon, Sproul , the Baptist Confession of Faith - if 1689 - the Westminster confession of faith all admit to the Bible fact that Ten Commandments begin in Eden with Adam and continue to this very day for the saints.

Interestingly - so also does the RCC and so also do SDAs admit to that Bible teaching.

And yet - you are among those who would oppose Spurgeon, D.L. Moody, the Baptist Confession of Faith, R.C. Sproul on that very point.


in Christ,

Bob

 

[Thinkingstuff]

NO! saying tht 5 point calvinism not a heresy, but how the SDA views what salvation process really entails is NOT the Gospel according to paul, but per Ellen White!

I am no more a fan of Ellen White than you. However, I must ask have you ever read Ellen White? The fact is I don't know enough about her work to really speak to them. I know she was an offshoot of the Millerite movement from which we get one Christian denomination and one cult that thinks that Arius was one of the seven angles talked about in the book of Revelation along with John, Paul, Peter Waldo ( which some Baptist also claim as their own), Martin Luther, John Wycliff, and of course Charles Taize Russell. However, I don't presume to know her specific teachings. So, I cannot claim such authority on the subject as you do in your post. I suspect SDA's believe in salvation by Grace. And I think Certainly they are Sola Scriptura. Though I've have always considered them to be a bit legalistic with regard to keeping the Jewish Sabbath, and maintaining certain Mosaic dietary laws. But that in itself shouldn't disqualify them as Christians as I consider the Charismatic Messianic Jews Christian though in their group there is strong legalistic bent called the one law movement making the Mosaic law obligatory. But then again there is a spectrum with in this group as well.

 

[saturneptune]

Spurgeon, Sproul , the Baptist Confession of Faith - if 1689 - the Westminster confession of faith all admit to the Bible fact that Ten Commandments begin in Eden with Adam and continue to this very day for the saints.

Interestingly - so also does the RCC and so also do SDAs admit to that Bible teaching.

Glad to see that you are not calling it heresy.

in Christ,

Bob

Regardless of creeds and history, your denomination is a salvation of works. Bottom line, end of story, another gospel is preached.

 

[Wherever You Go]

A missionary Friend of my jokingly called himself a Calminianist! I personally can't see how one can combine the two but I understand that there is election and yet we are solely responsible for our actions. But he got mileage with that confession!

:laugh:

I don't combine it, I believe God combined it. :tongue3: From my perspective, and your mileage will doubtless vary, both thoughts are contained in Scripture, both are true, and there has to be more to it than the sum of its parts. No doubt it is one of the things that is practically impossible for the finite human mind to fully comprehend. I know I personally can not come close to understanding it, but I believe it nonetheless.
:saint:

 

[Wherever You Go]

Just a side note, Bob Ryan, your church and school in Yap, Micronesia, has a very beautiful and well-maintained campus. I drove by it every day on the way to the Baptist church while I was there. :flower:

Catholicism is the dominant religion in Yap, and as is the case in many tropical locations, the RCC allows and/or encourages local spiritist superstions to be intermingled with their religion. The mormons have two "churches" on the island too.

I was told that the "Baptist religion" is the fastest growing religion on the island. There are four Baptist churches now, an improvement from one 12 years ago. :thumbsup:

Anyhow, when you were listing your stats there, Bob, I have a feeling that the RCC has you beat by a whopping number. I was born in a Catholic hospital, and three of my kids were born in an unrelated catholic hospital in another state.

We do have a Baptist hospital near here. . . .

 

[BobRyan]

Just a side note, Bob Ryan, your church and school in Yap, Micronesia, has a very beautiful and well-maintained campus. I drove by it every day on the way to the Baptist church while I was there. :flower:

Thanks. I have to admit - I never saw it.

I have seen one in Hyderbad India - but not much else outside the U.S.

I was told that the "Baptist religion" is the fastest growing religion on the island. There are four Baptist churches now, an improvement from one 12 years ago. :thumbsup:

Well God bless them. I am all for evangelism.

Anyhow, when you were listing your stats there, Bob, I have a feeling that the RCC has you beat by a whopping number. I was born in a Catholic hospital, and three of my kids were born in an unrelated catholic hospital in another state.

Yes indeed they do. Typically when we quote those numbers we add something like "and the only guys bigger than we are at this - is the Catholic Church". And of course at around 1 Billion members (not sure how accurate that it since they almost never take names off the books) - they are certainly bigger than we are by a long shot.

I was sorta hoping one of the Catholic members would post that statistic for Catholic schools, hospitals and missions. I know it is pretty big.

We do have a Baptist hospital near here. . . .

And again I say - God bless you for it.

As Christians we should be doing all we can to help those around us with physical and spiritual needs.

Never mind my "under-fear" posts. I am just having a little fun.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

As the prior poster has mentioned - the Catholic Church is quite a bit larger than the Seventh-day Adventists - and I have no doubt that they have more schools and hospitals world wide than we do (gotta do something with those 1 billion members ... some of them might as well be running hospitals and schools - eh?).

So that begins to give me a feeling of insecurity in that I may lose my ranking place as "Fear me the worst". One or two others have noted that as well so far on this thread.

So I need to take down the Catholic fear level a bit - and ratchet up my own.

I propose that on a Baptist board - I should be feared more than Catholics because - Catholics and Baptists are agreed on the fact that Sunday is the day to worship. That makes me the odd-man-out.

Even the sources I quote like the Baptist Confession of Faith 1689, R.C. Sproul, C.H. Spurgeon et al would gladly side with them over my view that we should stick to the Bible Sabbath as God gave it in Eden and at Sinai.

That alone should be enough to lower their fear-me-the-worst factor - and raise mine back to #1.

(My only qualifier there is that they would all (Catholic and all the rest) agree with me that God did in fact give the Ten Commandments to mankind in Eden and they are all ten still applicable to the saints today. So on that one point it is neutral -- leaving me still with a "net" of "fear me the worst" overall. )

Catholics also have a view of the immortality of the soul that is closer to Baptists than my view of a mortal soul "mortal man" etc where soul sleep is the model for "The dead in Christ" 1Thess 4.

This again could put my fear-me-the-worst factor up above that of my Catholic friends, given that I am posting on a Baptist board.



in Christ,

Bob

 

[Wherever You Go]

I try not to fear any but God.

 

[Wherever You Go]

Baptist dairy farmers love to employ SDA farm hands as relief milkers on Sundays.
:thumbsup:

 

[BobRyan]

Baptist dairy farmers love to employ SDA farm hands as relief milkers on Sundays.
:thumbsup:

Good point.

And as child-care givers for Sunday School - because they know that an SDA Child-care-giver is not missing out on church to provide that child care - whereas if they ask someone else they could be taking someone away from church or Sunday School.

Of course that lowers my fear-me-the-worst factor ... making me feel a bit insecure in my ability to hold that title.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[saturneptune]

The only point that makes the RCC more dangerous than the SDA is size. Some of the SDA beliefs are more radical despite both being a works based salvation. The RCC does not believe Jesus Christ is Michael for example, or that Jesus has an angel status like the Mormons believe Christ is a brother of Satan. The RCC believes Jesus is the Creator, not a created being.

 

[BobRyan]

The RCC does not believe Jesus Christ is Michael for example, or that Jesus has an angel status like the Mormons believe Christ is a brother of Satan. The RCC believes Jesus is the Creator, not a created being.

That is true.

So also do SDAs believe that Jesus was not Created and is not simply an Angel - but is in fact eternal God - the creator of all things. So it is pretty obvious that I would not much luck in getting my 'fear-me-the-worst' factor up on that one. (This is where it helps to actually read our statement of faith to get your facts about what we believe - as it turns out.)

That is why I pick areas where we have some differences - instead.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Yeshua1]

I am no more a fan of Ellen White than you. However, I must ask have you ever read Ellen White? The fact is I don't know enough about her work to really speak to them. I know she was an offshoot of the Millerite movement from which we get one Christian denomination and one cult that thinks that Arius was one of the seven angles talked about in the book of Revelation along with John, Paul, Peter Waldo ( which some Baptist also claim as their own), Martin Luther, John Wycliff, and of course Charles Taize Russell. However, I don't presume to know her specific teachings. So, I cannot claim such authority on the subject as you do in your post. I suspect SDA's believe in salvation by Grace. And I think Certainly they are Sola Scriptura. Though I've have always considered them to be a bit legalistic with regard to keeping the Jewish Sabbath, and maintaining certain Mosaic dietary laws. But that in itself shouldn't disqualify them as Christians as I consider the Charismatic Messianic Jews Christian though in their group there is strong legalistic bent called the one law movement making the Mosaic law obligatory. But then again there is a spectrum with in this group as well.

The SDA has Ellen white on apr with paul peter john they hold to keeping Sabbath and law as required to amintain salvation, hold that one can be saved now, lost in the end at investigative judgement that ellen white revelation from God purports...
there are no doubt save damong them, but is a biblical cult!

 

[Yeshua1]

That is true.

So also do SDAs believe that Jesus was not Created and is not simply an Angel - but is in fact eternal God - the creator of all things. So it is pretty obvious that I would not much luck in getting my 'fear-me-the-worst' factor up on that one. (This is where it helps to actually read our statement of faith to get your facts about what we believe - as it turns out.)

That is why I pick areas where we have some differences - instead.

in Christ,

Bob

Sda same as the RCC, have the right jesus, but have a operversion of the pauline gospel, and have work requiremnets, extar biblcal authority, seeing themelves true church etc!

 

[BobRyan]

Give me the Bible AND the words IN the Bible my friends.

Those who claim that Biblical doctrine is "extra biblical" are not looking at the text closely.

Read 1Thess 5:19-20 "closely" instead of declaring it to be extra-biblical.

Read Isaiah 30:8-11 closely - rather than declaring it be extra Biblical.

Read 1Cor 14:1-2 closely - rather than declaring it to be extra-biblical.

Read Eph 4:4-13 closely - rather than declaring it to be extra-biblical.

Give me the Bible AND the Word IN the Bible.

This is not the hard part.

in Christ,

Bob