Sealed Forever

You hated God? Oh, I see you said "if." So you have no independent knowledge this is true -- you just trust Calvinism's take on that part of scripture. You deny that lost people pray to God in times of need and even are curious enough to read the Bible or watch "The Passion," etc.

It has its limitations, of course. I was saved young so I got to make some pretty critical early spiritual decisions that could clearly have gone worse if I had followed my peers. But you know good and well that David said "I have never seen God's childern begging bread" and that those Proverbs are there for believers who have learned the lessons of scripture.

Paul lived among hostile people -- David didn't and we don't, yet. And Paul was abundantly wealthy in what he was pursuing, healthy enough to do it, and honor? We're still counting his honor in billions of Gentile Christians!

"Old dog? --- no new tricks?" :type: Sounds today like you just went through another Calvinist "water-boarding" session! :laugh:

I had a union rep that "got the treatment" when he "veered to the right" during a strike vote meeting. Not quite as intense as Paul's experiences, but you'd apparently know that better than me. We can be going along in such scriptural agreement and, next thing I know, you pull back to Calvinism.

The NT version is "foolish virgins" among the "wise" (Wheat and tares are not going to "marry" anyone.). I think you may get the right idea if you get the right imagery.

In Mt 13, we are the 'mustard seed and tree' that grew so large that the birds/evil ones abode in our branches. But mustard seeds are never confused for birds by the mustard seeds.

I feel soo sorry that you don't see Christ/husband as the "Savior of your body." Looking back over 45 years as a believer, I recognize how God saved my body --- many things He saved me from, how much He has provided for me, what kind of a character He has made me to be compared to what my own impulses would have been without Him. I hope you didn't come to a "Rom 1:21 crisis" and make a wrong turn.

skypair

 

Wait! Don't you trust EXPERIENCE? How many people do you know that HATE God? Doesn't the 'hate' interpretation make a liar out of a) scripture or b) Calvinism to you?

And a "Cornelius" problem, right? Cornelius was a "God-fearer" but God heard him though he was UNSAVED!

TC -- your Christianity seems a lot more about what you've read than about application. Dear man! My mom used to tell me about this and I didn't believe her. Then I started to believe the Bible! She was right! You have GOT to know that you have a NEW LIFE in Christ -- unless you don't (??).

There are "mountains" and "valleys," TC. But Paul DID preach (to us joggers) that exercise availeth some but godly living more. And he didn't have to preach about wealth -- he was a tentmaker. That was a pretty good job then if you were in it for the money.

And why? Because God gave them a heart to forsake all and follow Me.

But you raise an interesting issue -- do you feel many clergy end up there as a vocation rather than as a calling? I know many are "idealists" when they first believe and think that the mission field or ministry is automatically what God wants them to do. Others just find "acceptance" there more than elsewhere, I'm sure. But I always wonder if God really "called" men like Jim (???) to die in the mission field or did he (they) just "overcommit" (like I feel Clement did).

Scripture is scripture. Calvinism is an interpretation of scripture, sir. It explains the Bible for "wise" men. Us "little folks" try not to let that distract us. It becomes too much like the "telephone game" to listen to "hearsay." I don't mean to "dis" your motive -- just your means, TC. Write your own Bible study of John or Romans -- no "props." See what you come up with. I do it every night before going to sleep (I'm in Romans if you couldn't tell :jesus: ). The Spirit is SO clear when the comotion of the day is past! Just you and the Spirit, TC! :thumbs:

Sorry, I guess I was anticipating what you would be thinking about. My bad.

There is no doubt that, in one sense, you are right. But that is not the only sense in which scripture uses the symbology. When the Bible talks about the Spirit being the "Earnest of our redemption" (Eph 1:14), do you not feel -- does the Spirit not tell you (as Adrian Rogers preached) -- that He is your "engagement ring?" until the our wedding day?

I don't know, TC. Have you "entered into His rest?" I know ministry is your job but are you in the desert or the promised land?

skypair

 

TC,

Sorry to be so hard on you. You've been very honest and forthcoming with me and I have enjoyed getting to know you better. :thumbs:

Yet you still seem to have "strung some barbed wire" up as touching Calvinist distinctives -- as if there are passages you won't let the "wee sheep" graze on.

I look forward to your interaction on the new "Intorducing Christian Theology" thread above. :wavey:

skypair