Secretive Catholic

[DHK]

I have seen evidence to the contrary as far as the pope is concerned. I haven't defended the pope's brother. I haven't defended pedophiles or their actions.

To say I defend pedophiles is slander.

Lori, think logically, not with your emotions.

If I defend Hitler, I am also defending the Nazism which he stood for.
If I defend Stalin, I am also defending the Communism which he stood for.

If I defend the RCC I defend all the murderous crusades and inquisitions that they stood for; and more recently all the immorality including sexual abuses that they are involved in.

 

[lori4dogs]

Lori, think logically, not with your emotions.

If I defend Hitler, I am also defending the Nazism which he stood for.
If I defend Stalin, I am also defending the Communism which he stood for.

If I defend the RCC I defend all the murderous crusades and inquisitions that they stood for; and more recently all the immorality including sexual abuses that they are involved in.

To defend Christ Holy Church is not to defend wrongs committed in it's name.
You hate the Catholic Church, DHK, you will believe ANY accusation against it and dismiss any defense of it. Wrongs have been committed but wrongs have been committed in every denomination including the Baptist and it does not please the Lord.

 

[DHK]

To defend Christ Holy Church is not to defend wrongs committed in it's name.
You hate the Catholic Church, DHK, you will believe ANY accusation against it and dismiss any defense of it. Wrongs have been committed but wrongs have been committed in every denomination including the Baptist and it does not please the Lord.

Lori, it is well documented that when a "sex-abuser" (pedophile, homosexual, or whatever), is caught in the RCC, the situation is "diffused," and the priest is simply moved to another parish where he is not known. That is the pattern in the RCC.

The difference in Baptists and most other Protestant denominations is this.
First, we don't countenance breaking the law. If a pastor or leader of any sort breaks the law the police are called (not the pope), and he is charged to the fullest extent of the law whether or not he be a pastor. The pastor is not above the law!! But the pope and the priests think that they are!

Second, if there is any immorality at all in our Baptist Churches, they no longer can serve in any leadership capacity.

1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
--A bishop (or in this case pastor) must be blameless. Any person with a criminal record, or one who has caused a scandal of any sort--any kind of immoral scandal, is not blameless. He cannot stand before the pulpit and represent Christ. In our Baptist Churches, if a pastor falls into any type of sexual immorality they disqualify themselves from the pastorate for they are no longer blameless in their lives.
--This is not the case with the RCC.
I speak for the churches that I am associated with. So there is no need to direct me to any link that I am not associated with.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

nether is defending pedophiles and giving them excuses and supporting hiding them so they do not have to answer for crimes against children. but you do it anyway, and support the pope doing it, 2 different popes at least now.

DonnA, Lori said that if the Pope covered it up he's guilty. She also said that she does not defend the child molesters. So be fair and admit she said that. Her contention is that its not particular to the Catholic Church nor does it define it any more than it would a baptist church.

 

[menageriekeeper]

The Catholic Church has always handled such matters internally.

Therein lies the problem. No religion is or should be a law unto itself.

Go back and read the article you posted a couple of pages back. Who is prosecuting the accused? His own church members? Or the law?

The church may be supporting him financially until he is proven guilty, but even so it has removed him from the place of leadership he once held.

Can you not see the difference in how Baptists handle this issue and how the RCC has been handling it? If you can't, you are purposely blinding yourself.

 

[Salty]

Lori,
In your initial post, you gave a website about baptist pastors who abuse children. Wondering why you only indicated baptist pastors? Is it because Protestant* ministers don't?

I previous poster put it best: It is a crime! and should be reported to authorities - period - and anyone who covers it up should be dwelt with accordingly.

Salty

* note: Baptists are not Protestants - but being Roman Catholic you may not be aware of that.

 

[DHK]

It's all over the media now. They are coming out of the woodwork.

Irish cardinal apologizes for hiding abuse

Ireland's senior Catholic Church cardinal on Wednesday offered an apology for his handling of a case involving an abusive priest decades ago, and said he doesn't know what his future holds.
Cardinal Sean Brady was a priest in 1975 when abuse allegations were raised against another priest, Brendan Smyth. At a meeting at that time, Brady asked two victims — boys aged 10 and 14 — to sign letters agreeing they would remain silent. The church did not share the information with police.

Read the entire article hear:
http://news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/cbc-article.aspx?cp-documentid=23662243


The church (RCC), all one billion of them, did not share the information with the police. In other words, whoever had any knowledge of this crime did not go to the police. In other denominations, such as ours, we would have reported it to the police immediately. That is the difference. It is a Church-cover up with the RCC. It is a perpetuated sin, in this respect. And then to add to the despicable and heinous nature of this crime he has these two boys, only ten and 14 to sign letters promising them to be quiet. Abhorrent!

The abuse — and its subsequent coverup — is estimated to have run from the 1930s to the 1990s and involved more than 15,000 children.

 

[lori4dogs]

Lori,
In your initial post, you gave a website about baptist pastors who abuse children. Wondering why you only indicated baptist pastors? Is it because Protestant* ministers don't?

I previous poster put it best: It is a crime! and should be reported to authorities - period - and anyone who covers it up should be dwelt with accordingly.

Salty

* note: Baptists are not Protestants - but being Roman Catholic you may not be aware of that.

Baptists most certainly are Protestants. Any student of history knows that. Baptists succession is a myth.

 

[lori4dogs]

It's all over the media now. They are coming out of the woodwork.

Irish cardinal apologizes for hiding abuse


Read the entire article hear:
http://news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/cbc-article.aspx?cp-documentid=23662243


The church (RCC), all one billion of them, did not share the information with the police. In other words, whoever had any knowledge of this crime did not go to the police. In other denominations, such as ours, we would have reported it to the police immediately. That is the difference. It is a Church-cover up with the RCC. It is a perpetuated sin, in this respect. And then to add to the despicable and heinous nature of this crime he has these two boys, only ten and 14 to sign letters promising them to be quiet. Abhorrent!

"This "little light" shines for the many clergy abuse victims whose voices have been silenced. Silenced by shame. Silenced by the false instruction of religious leaders. Silenced by church shunning and bullying. Silenced by church contracts for secrecy. Silenced by suicide. The mission of StopBaptistPredators.org is to break the silence of Baptist clergy sex abuse." (StopBaptistPredators.org.)

Contracts by Baptists churches with victims of Baptist pastor child molesters to buy the silence of the victims. It would never happen you say?? There is evidence to the contrary. Abhorrent!

 

[lori4dogs]

DHK said: "Second, if there is any immorality at all in our Baptist Churches, they no longer can serve in any leadership capacity."

This shows you are wrong.



Baptist church sticking by pastor facing sex charges
By Bob Allen
Thursday, May 07, 2009

ST. JOSEPH, Mo. (ABP) -- A small Southern Baptist church near St. Joseph, Mo., is reportedly standing by its pastor, who is accused of soliciting sex over the Internet with a police officer posing as a 13-year-old girl.

 

[menageriekeeper]

Clyde Elder, director of missions for St. Joseph Baptist Association, said May 6 the church is standing in support of its preacher, and by mutual agreement with church leaders Black has taken a leave of absence with pay. Elder said the church is using supply preachers during Black's absence.

No, this shows YOU are wrong. The quote comes from the article you posted on page three of this thread.

 

[lori4dogs]

No, this shows YOU are wrong. The quote comes from the article you posted on page three of this thread.

It says they are 'sticking by him' and he is still on the payroll.

Baptist church contracts with the victims of child molestation by Baptist pastors to BUY their silence is a FACT and is proved by a Baptist website, StopBaptistPredators.org.

 

[menageriekeeper]

You do know that each Baptist church is completely independent of each other? There is no heirarchy beyond that of the congregation, deacons and pastor?

And do you or do you not agree that a man is innocent until proven guilty?

Sticking with him and continuing to pay his salary, in no way constitutes hiding the crime and the criminal and enabling the criminal to molest again. Its not that Baptists don't suffer from criminals, it that we have no denomination wide policy of hiding them and passing them around to unsuspecting congregations that have NO CHOICE in who comes to minister to them.

If such a man as you describe above were to apply to my Baptist church for a position, we'd have found in the background check that gets run even on Sunday School teachers, that he'd been arrested on child molestation charges. His application wouldn't make it out of the committee that oversees personel. If it did, the deacon board would have its chance to determine the truthfulness of the charges (remember the man in the article is only charged, not convicted) and they would put it down. By that time, every member of our congregation would know about the charges and when it came time to vote, there would be a resounding NO! until the courts had determined his guilt or innocence.

That is 3 chances for us to catch a potential problem vs the RCC congregation zero chances of determining for themselves if a man is fit to serve.

 

[GBC Pastor]

Not to derail this thread, but I had to ask about this:

I will remain in Christ's one Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church because it is the Church founded upon Peter and Jesus promised the 'gates of hell will not prevail against it.'

Do all Catholics believe in the church being "founded upon Peter" rather than the church being founded upon Jesus Christ and His word?

 

[lori4dogs]

Cover-ups, contracts with the victims buying their silence speak loudly to the spiritual condition of the 'automonous' Baptist congregations who have leadership engaged in this behavior. Period!

 

[lori4dogs]

Not to derail this thread, but I had to ask about this:




Do all Catholics believe in the church being "founded upon Peter" rather than the church being founded upon Jesus Christ and His word?

Christ Himself founded the Church upon Peter. Topic for another thread perhaps?

 

[menageriekeeper]

Cover-ups, contracts with the victims buying their silence speak loudly to the spiritual condition of the 'automonous' Baptist congregations who have leadership engaged in this behavior. Period!

So because other churches also behave in sinful ways, does that excuse the RCC of the sin it finds itself in?

See, when my kids point their fingers at another and say "Well he/she diiiiddddd....", I always tell them that is no excuse for their own bad behavior. Is it not the same here? You say the RCC shouldn't be censured for protecting child molesters because other churches have done the same?

 

[lori4dogs]

So because other churches also behave in sinful ways, does that excuse the RCC of the sin it finds itself in?

See, when my kids point their fingers at another and say "Well he/she diiiiddddd....", I always tell them that is no excuse for their own bad behavior. Is it not the same here? You say the RCC shouldn't be censured for protecting child molesters because other churches have done the same?

Nothing excuses the behavior within any denomination, that includes the Baptists. I'm finding that some people on this board love to point fingers but don't like looking at the sinfulness of the clergy in their own denominations.

 

[webdog]

Nothing excuses the behavior within any denomination, that includes the Baptists. I'm finding that some people on this board love to point fingers but don't like looking at the sinfulness of the clergy in their own denominations.

Aren't you guilty of this very thing here?

 

[annsni]

Baptists most certainly are Protestants. Any student of history knows that. Baptists succession is a myth.

Oh? Where did you hear that? I'm sorry to say (well, not really) but it's true.