security

Sorry Isaiah, I didn't mean to abandon this thread. I still don't have the time to deal with it seriously and may not have the time for a few days yet. Right now I'm only finding time to read a bit and maybe make short posts so folks know I'm still among the living. My life has been like this here lately. Nothing to do for days and then I'm running circles with no end in sight.

I will get back to this, but it is pretty deep and I want to make sure I have sufficient time to frame my posts.

 

Okay, I think I'm back at least for a bit. I'm going to start where I left off by quoting Npetrely:

This is my alternative to a mere feeling:

Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Mic 7:18 Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy. Mic 7:19 He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea. Mic 7:20 Thou wilt perform the truth to Jacob, and the mercy to Abraham, which thou hast sworn unto our fathers from the days of old.


Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised)

1Jo 1:9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


See to my freewill way of thinking, if I do what I am supposed to (believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved) then He will do what He has promised to do. (all the above) So I know I am saved not because I did anything to deserve it, anything to accomplish it, but because He said if I believed He would. I think this is the definition of faith.

But Cals seem to believe that they can be saved without belief because if God has chosen them then they will believe, which is to my mind a bit of circular reasoning. So I ask again, how does a Calvinst know they are saved/chosen.

We have moved past the issue of eternal securty. I get that Calvinists also believe this. I just don't understand how Calvinists can apply eternal security to themselves if they can't explain how they know they are saved/chosen.



<posted with the understanding that I may be here today and gone tomorrow. If I am, I'll be back as time allows>

 

Well I think I'm a little confused. We're held accountable for NOT believing, but God doesn't hold us accountable for believing? How's that work?

And none of this still explains how a Calvinist knows for sure that he/she has been chosen, if you can't take the credit for your belief. Have you really believed or do you just think you've believed? <hypothetical question, guys, don't get all upset.> What I mean is this: if God choses for you how do you know you have made the choice? It's almost like saying well my mother said I was a Christian so I must be one. It doens't work.

 

Well the difference is this: If I believe, consciencely, wholeheartedly, unreservedly, then God had promised certain things. Even if God choses me out of all the poor folks around me to draw and reveal Himself to, I still have to respond positively. So I'm not relying on my own choice, as I could chose to save myself by bouncing up an down and it wouldn't do me any good, but am relying instead on God to do what He promised. The power isn't in the choice but in the promise.

In your baseball example, if you were chosen for next years Braves team, would you not have to accept the position?

Gotta go to choir practice!

 

Amy, you ever seen someone act saved? They say all the right thing, do all the work in the church and so. Seem to be showing fruit, right? I've seen some of these folks come to the realization after years of doing these things and say "I was never saved, I've never experienced Christ, I need to accept Christ now!"

How does that happen?

Calvinists say if you are chosen you will accept. I want to know a simple thing: how does one know they are chosen and that salvation is being offered to them, how do they explain the difference between play acting salvation and being saved if there is no responisibility on the part of man.

 

Do you mind describing what facilitated that change?

 

Would you have considered it, if your friends hadn't brought it up? (or am I misunderstanding and you were already looking? if so, why were you looking)

 

Isaiah, in light of the Primitive Baptist thread, I'm begining to realize that there are about as many flavors of Calvinists as there are freewillers! :laugh: Some of us are much closer in our beliefs than we let on. Shocking thought!

Edited to say that I think my curiosity here is satisfied. Maybe......

 

That's why I ask weird questions at times.