Seed of Evil

[Brother Bob]

Allan read pm

 

[Allan]

The Scriptures state explicitly that the Virgin Birth was given as a sign. That's the reason for it. Again, sin is not something that is passed. It is in actuality something that is NOT passed, and that thing is life. Mary was no more able to impart life to Christ than Joseph. Christ's life is from God and is immortal, eternal and incorruptible, and could just as easily have dwelt in a body prepared for Him "in the family way" as it was to dwell in one that was prepared miraculously.

Do you have anything to offer than opinion. Yes, it was a sign and that was not disputed but so are the stars, moon, and sun. A sign for the seasons yet there is more to it than that. Tongues were a sign for the unbeliever but there was more to it than that. And on and on we can go. But that aside for the moment.

I have shown via scripture in Rom 5 (most notably) that sin IS passed on but you have yet to show anything but assumption, speculation, and opinion of the issue. So, it would help your argument greatly to bring this into discussion.

 

[skypair]

I agree with this IF you are meaning that they are not YET accountable TILL they come to what most commonly refer to as the "age of accountability".

Accountability means 2 things: 1) old enough to understand what sin is and 2) know of some sin that you have committed. We could as easily call it "age of conviction of sin." BUT no one is convicted of sin they didn't perform.

You substitute for this truth your idea that God's mercy applies before accountability. I'd like to see that in scripture if you can.

Scripture please... survival instinct IS NOT a comparison of a Nature at odds with God.

It is comprehended in the term "natural man." Would you agree with me that the natural man has instincts? like pain-aversion, hunger, etc.

Yes, but where did the LUST come from?? Our Sin nature is where. To lust in this aspect (sinfully) is to desire LONGINGLY to go against what you KNOW is truth to satify yourself.

BINGO! Instinct turned to sin. A person wants to eat more than they need and becomes a glutton. Gluttony is sin against the body and against God.

A good example is Adam. Adam sinned but did Adam first lust to sin?? No, he chose to do so. Even Eve was decieved to sin but she never LUSTED to sin.

Jas 1:14-15 should answer that.

We do not begin sinless for we are born sinners YET we are covered under His mercy till come to that point where understanding takes hold of right and wrong / good and evil / sin and righeousness. And should such a child die in 'INNOCENTS' they are covered under the mercy of God because they have yet to of themselves choose to walk away from God. We don't find Jesus in the Post-Trib. Rapter with the SAINTS trying to figure out what to do with these. They are under the mercy of God BECAUSE of the Blood of Gods Grace.

But we DO find Israel postrib/MK trying to figure out what to do with them :laugh: Isa 49:20-23. I'd say raise them till they believe, wouldn't you?!

skypair

 

[Sularis]

A Reply

Due to Server problems - this answering post was delayed

I see you misinterpreted the tone in which I typed I do not believe that sin is passed down - nor do I believe that via cloning or genetic manipulation we could create a sinless male - although that is the conclusion one could reach if one believed the assumption that all sin passes through the sperm or some other male only device

Sigh however you want verses

Eze 18:20, Deut 24:16, Jeremiah 21:29-30 - teach that everyone dies because of their own sin - no one is held accountable for the sins of another - that principle applies to Adam as well being that He is the father of the Human race.

Isaiah 3:10-11, Romans 2:6, Rev 20:12, Rev 22:12 - also continue that point that each man shall be judged on HIS OWN works

But Romans 5 basically says sin and death entered because of Adam - However there is another verse saying that sin was there but not imputed because there was no law - so if sin existed in potentium (sp?) during Adam's sinless state - what could Adam do to us his descendants? Put us under a curse of course

Rev 22:3, Gal 3:13, Romans 8:21-23

What is the curse? Why the curse of the law and sin - Romans 7:5,23

The Romans passage is very interesting look at verse 9 - now pretty much every commentary suggests the principle ignorance of the law is an excuse - but in reality it is something far more disturbing or amazing depending on how you look at it.

Every single person on this planet is made by God - How can that which God makes not be perfect and good? I'm assuming you know the verses that state those principles - and yes yes I know when I assume I make an ass out of u and me - Because God does make us perfect - but we each and every one of us fall because of the curse of the flesh which corrupts us. Not to say that flesh is bad - No flesh was designed by God to be perfect but Adam went and screwed it up thus allowing the transmission of the curse (the sin nature)

Btw if you dont realize I'm suggesting the Age of Innocence theory here - that while we are born with a corrupt nature which may or may not be enough to damn us to Hell - we actually damn ourselves anyways because we do not and perhaps cannot resist our own corrupted sinful nature.

I doubt anyone will believe or support my viewpoint - since all too often it feels like I'm :BangHead: but I'm more then willing to discuss and back up my viewpoints with Scripture

 

[skypair]

sularis,

Oh, contrare'! I think you have a good "handle" on the reality not only of man but of scripture!!

In fact, I was able to instantly look at your scripture citations and see what you were talking about -- via Instaverse.com. It's a great download which allows you to put your cursor over a verse reference and the verse will pop up. It's great!

Anyway, I think you are "straight arrow" on this and I agree. Initially, we are innocent but eventually (age of accountability) we ALL sin.

skypair

 

[Tom Butler]

I haven't read it in years, but many years ago, M. R. DeHaan wrote a little pamphlet called The Chemistry of the Blood.

His thesis was that all the genetic markers were contained in the sperm of the male, and thus the sin nature was passed along by the man.

He contended that Mary's blood was not passed on to Jesus, and no man was involved, Jesus was born without a sin nature.

That little pamphlet is still floating around, and could account for the view expressed in the OP.

 

[Allan]

Sigh however you want verses

Now was that really so hard to do. How is one to your position 'biblically' in your eyes if you don't bring forth that by which you came to your own conclusion. And BTW, Thank you.

Eze 18:20, Deut 24:16, Jeremiah 21:29-30 - teach that everyone dies because of their own sin - no one is held accountable for the sins of another - that principle applies to Adam as well being that He is the father of the Human race.

Isaiah 3:10-11, Romans 2:6, Rev 20:12, Rev 22:12 - also continue that point that each man shall be judged on HIS OWN works

But Romans 5 basically says sin and death entered because of Adam - However there is another verse saying that sin was there but not imputed because there was no law - so if sin existed in potentium (sp?) during Adam's sinless state - what could Adam do to us his descendants? Put us under a curse of course

Rev 22:3, Gal 3:13, Romans 8:21-23

What is the curse? Why the curse of the law and sin - Romans 7:5,23

The Romans passage is very interesting look at verse 9 - now pretty much every commentary suggests the principle ignorance of the law is an excuse - but in reality it is something far more disturbing or amazing depending on how you look at it.

I have no problem with any of these verse as they deal with 'sin' that a person does, and not the sin nature where by we can do nothing else but sin. It was the sin nature I thought we were speaking about.

Every single person on this planet is made by God - How can that which God makes not be perfect and good? I'm assuming you know the verses that state those principles - and yes yes I know when I assume I make an ass out of u and me - Because God does make us perfect

That doesn't jive with scripture...we are created perfect. If this were true we would not sin have the propensity toward sin even as children that need to be taught to do right and not wrong. We are ALL under the bondage of Sin (Rom 6 & 7) or that which which binds us to do sin because we are born with a sin nature. We naturally do that which we are born towards. For ALL (all mankind) has (past tense) sinned (again past tense). All in Adam has sinned therefore we all are under that curse and recieved to ourselves that sinful nature.

- but we each and every one of us fall because of the curse of the flesh which corrupts us. Not to say that flesh is bad - No flesh was designed by God to be perfect but Adam went and screwed it up thus allowing the transmission of the curse (the sin nature)

I agree here. However I'm confused how you get from "we are created by God perfect - TO - no flesh was designed by God to be perfect. You made a complete contradiction, at least to me.

Btw if you dont realize I'm suggesting the Age of Innocence theory here - that while we are born with a corrupt nature which may or may not be enough to damn us to Hell - we actually damn ourselves anyways because we do not and perhaps cannot resist our own corrupted sinful nature.

This was all I was saying. I just don't hold to the "perhaps cannot resist" and believe that we truly cannot resist our natural state by which we are inclided TO sin.

 

[skypair]

I haven't read it in years, but many years ago, M. R. DeHaan wrote a little pamphlet called The Chemistry of the Blood.

His thesis was that all the genetic markers were contained in the sperm of the male, and thus the sin nature was passed along by the man.

He contended that Mary's blood was not passed on to Jesus, and no man was involved, Jesus was born without a sin nature.

That little pamphlet is still floating around, and could account for the view expressed in the OP.

Tom,

You are, indeed, correct so far as Adrian Rogers taught also. I'm pretty comfortable with that. I suppose to some extent it is possible that the races were caused by a similar "blood poisoning/blessing."

skypair

 

[skypair]

Allan,

I would appreciate your answering my "construct" of "sin nature." I think you will find that the "natural man" was created in innocence and yet is prone to sin by the excess of "natural instincts."

I'm with sularis until then. God creates all things perfect. That creation becomes imperfect is the fault of creation, is it not?

skypair

 

[Sularis]

ok here's what I think

God is actively involved in the creation of us - "the mother's womb - fearfully and wonderfully made verse or verses" I could look them up but Im not taking the one minute it would take to find them - oh wait nvm - I'lll find them just for ya'll

Isa 44:2,24 - Psalms 139:14

This clearly indicates God is involved in the formation of every individual - but we cannot have God be the author of sin - or make a flawed product. So how can me semantically and logically jump around this supposed barrier?

Why by dismissing the Traducianists! Whooo!!! :thumbsup:

If flesh reproduces its flawed form - but God creates a perfect soul - that allows God to create perfection and yet still transmit His curse brought on by Adam - so thus instead of actual sin we have a sin nature

of course this where the misinterpretation of sin being passed down by sperm/blood - because logically any blood would pass it on to Jesus be Mary a transvestite male or female - gender is no barrier to sin - but some of these authors would have us believe that female sin doesnt get passed through to male descendants but only same-sex sin transfers! I wonder if their closet door is fully open or they are harbouring some feelings of resentment

 

[Aaron]

I have shown via scripture in Rom 5 (most notably) that sin IS passed on...

This just says that the sentence of death has passed to all mankind. Death is not something. Death is the lack of something. And that thing is life.

 

[skypair]

Whoa,

Sularis! You're over MY head now -- but I'm gonna bump this up to get it "back in play" ahead of those Romans lessons!

skypair

 

[Van]

Here is a different view!!

Recently I've been hearing from my course instructor, my father, and the pastor at where I live - that its the man's fault we are all sinners - that sin passes through the male - no one has given me verse support for this - and it doesnt make sense - I get the same feeling when I first heard my sunday school teacher and pastor say dinosaurs didnt exist.

So I'd like some verses supporting this viewpoint - since I cant seem to find any on my own

The Fall was the result of the sin of one MAN, Adam. Eve's deluded action did not result in the Fall. However, how did the corruption spread? When Adam sinned volitionally, then both Adam and Eve's eyes were opened. She had fallen and been made a sinner without spreading the corruption biologically. So it is spread spiritually, and not though some genetic process, such as corrupted DNA.