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Seeking truth about "tongues"...
- Thread starter lugnut1009
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Both Isaiah and Paul make it clear that this is a sign to Israel. In the house of Corneilus it was a sign to the Jews present. In Samaria in Acts 8 there were Jews present. In Acts 19 there was Paul and his company of persons that accompanied him on the missionary journey consisting of Jews present.
The miracle element in the gift of tongues is that it is "another" dialect than the dialect of the speaker and therefore must be in the native language of the listener who is not of the same dialect of the speaker. If not, it ceases to be a miracle.
On the day of Pentecost you cannot find listed "Israel" among those listed becuase the speakers were Galiean and if they spoke in Armaic it would not be recognized as a "sign" to others from Galilee or Judea. So they spoke in GENTILE native languages.
In the house of Corneilus the speakers were gentiles whose native langauge most likely was Latin as he was a centurian in the Roman Army. So it is safe to say that they did not speak in Latin.
However, we know from Acts 6 there were many Jewish proseyltes or Gentiles in the church at Jerusalem and perhaps Jews of the dispersia still present.
With the exception of Peter we do not know the native tongues of those that accompanied Peter to the house of Corneilus. So it is impossible to know what dialects were spoken by the gentile believers in Acts 10 since we do not know the native langauges among those who accompanied Peter to his house.
Israel had rejected and crucified the Messiah so this was a missionary gift to scattered Israel of the Dispersia. That is the only way that Paul and the Gentile churches could use it a they were outside the borders of Israel. So it would be "another" dialect than Aramaic in its use by Jews and Gentiles outside the borders of Israel. The only way it could include the Armaic language would be by gentile believers to Jews of Palestine. However, there is no record of Gentile believers going to Palestine to witness to Israel. Therefore this is characteristically GENTILE dialects just as Isaiah clearly states.
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evangelist-7
New Member
Look, if you had any spiritual wisdom at all, you wouldn't have wasted your time.
Didn't they teach you this at the cemetary, er seminary?
Women are not to teach men on spiritual matters ...
because some of the "teaching" is involved in human reasoning, logic, and etc.
However, women are capable of being used by the Lord in spiritual matters,
if they are used in the 9 spiritual power gifts (1 Cor 12).
I.E. if they are simply used as a conduit of the Lord to bring forth a message from Him.
.
Are you a woman? Is "Awaken" a woman? Gender is not given in any titles on this forum and I am not omniscient to know the gender behind the titles.
Besides what scripture do you have to deny men teaching women???? I am a man not a woman. What "cementary" taught you that men could not teach women?
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I posted in another post because it was too long
THere is no record of anyone using tongues to evangalize/preach the gospel. The manifestations were given to the church to edify/build up the church! To profit all!
Every example of tongues in the Bible (no matter what dialect) was a sign that those people had received the Holy Spirit.
Mark 16 says those that believe the SIGN-speak with new tongues- would follow.
Acts 1:5 Jesus tell them that they would be baptized by the Holy Spirit
Acts 2 they were baptized with the Holy Spirit and they spoke in tongues just like Mark 16 said they would.
Acts 2:16 Peter said THIS that they hear and see is the pouring out of the Holy Spirit. What did they see and hear? Tongues!
Acts 8:17-18 When the Holy Spirit came upon them, Simon SAW something! Something manifested! If we follow the example of all those that were baptized in the Holy Spirit..I would ASSUME that it would be tongues!
Acts 10 When the Holy Spirit fell on them..the same as Acts 2 they spoke in tongues.
Acts 19 when Paul laid hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit they did what? Spoke in tongues and prophesied!
So from those scriptures that speak about tongues...What sign was tongues? They were a sign when the Holy Spirit came upon them! Just as Peter said in Acts 2! A sign is something you see that points to something! What did that sign point to?
That same sign is for today! But only to believers as Mark 16 claims!
It is a prayer! Unless you want to ignore 1 Cor. 14 and every example (however you take it) is claiming...speaking to God...praying in the spirit...blessing with the spirit...giving thanks. THe correction was not to speak in tongues in church without the interpretation. It was not condemning it or forbidding it!
Paul spoke in tongues more than all. But in church he would rather speak in words with HIS understanding. So that alone tells you that tongue is something He does not understand what he is saying (just like vs. 2 says).
What most are confused on is what kind of sign is it to the unbeliever!
You are correct in that my mind is made up! I will not disagree with scriptures and believe your interpretation. Because to do so I would have to ignore all that I posted above. Not only is it in the word and will be here until we see face to face and know as we are known...I have experienced for myself! A man with a TRUE experience is never at the mercy of a man with a theory!
Every example of tongues in the Bible (no matter what dialect) was a sign that those people had received the Holy Spirit.
Mark 16 says those that believe the SIGN-speak with new tongues- would follow.
Acts 1:5 Jesus tell them that they would be baptized by the Holy Spirit
Acts 2 they were baptized with the Holy Spirit and they spoke in tongues just like Mark 16 said they would.
Acts 2:16 Peter said THIS that they hear and see is the pouring out of the Holy Spirit. What did they see and hear? Tongues!
Acts 8:17-18 When the Holy Spirit came upon them, Simon SAW something! Something manifested! If we follow the example of all those that were baptized in the Holy Spirit..I would ASSUME that it would be tongues!
Acts 10 When the Holy Spirit fell on them..the same as Acts 2 they spoke in tongues.
Acts 19 when Paul laid hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit they did what? Spoke in tongues and prophesied!
So from those scriptures that speak about tongues...What sign was tongues? They were a sign when the Holy Spirit came upon them! Just as Peter said in Acts 2! A sign is something you see that points to something! What did that sign point to?
That same sign is for today! But only to believers as Mark 16 claims!
It is a prayer! Unless you want to ignore 1 Cor. 14 and every example (however you take it) is claiming...speaking to God...praying in the spirit...blessing with the spirit...giving thanks. THe correction was not to speak in tongues in church without the interpretation. It was not condemning it or forbidding it!
Paul spoke in tongues more than all. But in church he would rather speak in words with HIS understanding. So that alone tells you that tongue is something He does not understand what he is saying (just like vs. 2 says).
What most are confused on is what kind of sign is it to the unbeliever!
You are correct in that my mind is made up! I will not disagree with scriptures and believe your interpretation. Because to do so I would have to ignore all that I posted above. Not only is it in the word and will be here until we see face to face and know as we are known...I have experienced for myself! A man with a TRUE experience is never at the mercy of a man with a theory!
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BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Until one reads Acts 2 and 1Cor 14.
Acts 2
King James Version (KJV)
2 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tonguesthe wonderful works of God.
12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:
21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Takes a lot of assumption and tradition to say that in spite of the text saying otherwise.
1Cor 14:22-23 - Tongues is specifically for a sign to unbelievers not believers.
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
It is specifically for evangelism.
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You are right about one thing - the modern substitute for the Bible gift of tongues is not being used for the Acts 2 and 1Cor 14 purposes stated above.
And that should be a huge clue for those engaged in it that something is waaaay wrong with the gift they are claiming as a legit gift of 1Cor 12.
in Christ,
Bob
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
In Acts 2 the text tells you.
In Acts 10 the text does not. Why go to the point of least information in the text to make your case??
How can you call yourself a Christian and continue to pervert the Scriptures.
Different passages have different contexts. You can't read into one passage what happened in another. That is an argument from silence.
Was there a a sound like a mighty rushing wind and cloven tongues of fire in Acts 10, or 19, or in Corinth? No. The conditions were different in all three; the events were different events.
There was no praising of God either in Acts 2. Stick with the Scriptures.
In Acts 2, "They heard them speak the wonderful works of God."
That is what is says. That is what happened; nothing more. There was no prayer; no praise; nothing but speaking forth the truth of God, His works, what He had done for them and for others. This is not praise but more like preaching.
What happened in Acts 10:
Acts 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
--You don't understand this verse; neither do you understand grammar.
This afternoon my wife was sewing and knitting.
They aren't the same thing. But you seem to think they are. She doesn't sew with one hand and knit with the other at the same time. It doesn't work that way. Neither did it work that way in the above verse. It is a compound sentence saying they did both, but not at the same time.
In Acts 3:
Acts 3:8 And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God.
--What does the last part of the verse say?
He went into the temple and then he was " walking, and leaping, and praising God."
There are three actions here, but not all at the same time.
Walking is not leaping and vice-versa. And his feet and legs didn't do the praising. That was a separate action. It is a compound sentence with three separate actions. A child can understand that.
A child can also understand this:
"they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God."
There are two actions. First they spoke with tongues. That is one action. And the verb is "to speak." It is past tense.
Then they magnified God. They are not the same thing done at the same time. They don't have two mouths. They spoke in tongues, and then they magnified God with the same mouth after they had spoken in tongues--two separate actions. They are not the same thing.
No, it was a sign of judgment. It was a fulfillment of Isa.28 and Joel 2:28ff that Peter quoted. In fact Peter directly said: "This is that which Joel said." And then he spoke of a partial fulfillment and of judgment, but more of judgment than of any other subject. If they did not trust Christ now, as their Messiah, they could be sure judgment would come.
In Acts 19 these all were Jews. It was a sign that the apostles had more than just the message of John, but that their message was of God. It was a sign of the apostles.
Secondly because they were "unbelieving Jews" the sign was specifically for them, wasn't it?
In Acts 12:28, it is the least of all the gifts and it was not to be sought after.
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It is interesting to follow your mind processes. They are confused just like the confusion that existed in the church at Corinth.
For example, both Isaiah and Paul (two witnesses) both regard tongues as a sign that confirms Christ as the Messiah. Now a "sign" confirms a truth but not necessarily is the truth being confirmed. For example, the writer of Hebrews says the gospel or our great salvation was "confirmed' by "signs" demonstrating the sign's function was not the truth, but what confirmed the truth being presented.
On the day of Pentecost, tongues were evidently recognized as a supernatural act from God which gave confirmation to the gospel preached by Peter. Hence, it functioned as a "sign" should function - it gave supernatural confirmation to the gospel.
That is the function that both Isaian and Paul assert that "tongues" was designed for. Hence, it was not designed for "believers" just as Paul explicitly states it is not. It is for "unbelievers' but not all unbeliever's in general but for a specific class of unbelievers who are specfically and clearly identified in Isaiah and in 1 Cor. 14:21.
1. It is for a people that "WILL NOT HEAR ME saith the Lord"
2. It is not for the "unlearned" or Gentiles - 1 Cor. 14:22
3. Ii is for "this people who rule Jerusalem" - Isa. 28:11
4. It is from a people with "ANOTHER" dialect than those being spoken to
5. Those being spoken to are explictly and specifically identified as Jews.
Now all this precise contextual details will be totally rejected by you for one reason and one reason only. Not because it cannot be contextual proven beyond doubt by any rational minded person but because you have a seared mind by your false doctrine and a spirit leading you that will not admit error at any cost. You leap from one irrational argument to another which explicitly identifies the nature of the spirit you are being led by.
The context not merely predicts it but addresses it in the past tense of fulfillment demonstrating it has specific reference to the apostolic ministry (Mk. 16:20)
No scripture states that tongues is a sign of the baptism in the Spirit.
They also had tongues of fire appearing on them. There was also the sound of a mighty rushing wind. You are cherry picking what you like and rejecting what you don't like.
Again Mark claims it had been fulfilled by the time he wrote his gospel account - Mk. 16:20
You are perverting the context. Peter said "THIS IS" what Joel predicted as confirmation of the same gospel of salvation:
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
How do I know for sure that such were for confirming the Gospel? Look at the conclusion of Joel's passage quoted in verse 21. Now read verse 22 where Peter reaffirms this purpose for miracles signs and wonders:
22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
Heb. 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?
Hence, the purpose of miracles signs and wonders IN GENERAL is to CONFIRM the gospel preached.
The purpose of the specific "sign" gift of tongues to confirm the gospel to the Jewish nation.
Again, you are quoting out of context. What he say was communicated through laying on of apostolic hands. He specifically noted that and asked for that specific ability so that he could lay his hands on others and communicate sign gifts:
And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
Of course this does not fit your doctrine and so you ignore it.
I have already responded to this in detail, which you completely ignored. You MO is like all demonic led teachers, what you can't respond to you ignore, pervert and then repeat as though it was never addressed.
Again, it was provided through the laying on of apostolic hands. Moreover, there were Jews present in all these cities.
Mark states this was already fulfilled before He wrote his gospel. Again you cherry pick what you like and ignore what repudiates your conclusions.
You have been proven wrong and could not give a rational response on 1 Cor. 14:13-17. Now you ignore the evidence that exposed your false interpretation and merely repeat your errors just like all demonic led teachers do.
You are ignoring the preceding context. Foreign languages used in the impropr context will always be unknown to the speaker and those hearing as it is not designed for beleivers or for the church but is a "sign" to people whom the prophet predicts WILL NOT HEAR ME. Paul condemns speaking in tongues in the church or anywhere else where there is no UNDERSTANDING provided as it provides no edification, which by contextual definition is defined to be UNDERSTANDING (vv. 6-11).
You are confused and you are [personal attack deleted] spreading confusion. The whole charismatic movement is nothing but confusion, division, false doctrines, promoting the common demonic "esctatic" utterance under the guise of Biblical tongues
It is self-evident to all reading your complete nonsense that you are a [personal attack deleted] person who has no interest in handling God's word fairly or truthfully.
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1 Cor 12:7* But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal
1 Cor 12:25* That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
1 Cor 13:1* Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal
(I've already posted the verses from 1 Cor 14 that fit with this)
Eph 4:11* And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12* For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ
What I've posted previously about people desiring the gift of languages being selfish; what others have posted about the gift of languages being for evangelizing; one only has to read scripture to understand that ALL the gifts are for the edifying of the body, and NOT for the individual.
Speaking in languages is not for evangelizing? Poppycock. in Acts 2, what did the hearers do after hearing the apostles speak languages they shouldn't have been able to know? They listened to Peter preach the gospel, and thousands were saved. In Acts 10, after they heard the newly saved speak in languages, they realized the gospel was for everyone. In 1 Cor 14, we are told that speaking in languages is a sign for the unbeliever, but that prophesy is better because it reveals their hearts. Speaking in languages gets their attention and prepares them for the gospel; this is a necessary step for evangelism.
The gifts are not for ourselves. We don't prophesy to ourselves; we aren't apostles to ourselves; we don't heal ourselves. As Paul admonishes in all these verses, we are to seek to the edifying of the body.
I forbid not to speak in languages; but don't make it a private affair. Seek to the edifying of others; minister to others as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion forever and ever. Amen. (1 Peter 4:10)
1 Cor 12:25* That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
1 Cor 13:1* Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal
(I've already posted the verses from 1 Cor 14 that fit with this)
Eph 4:11* And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12* For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ
What I've posted previously about people desiring the gift of languages being selfish; what others have posted about the gift of languages being for evangelizing; one only has to read scripture to understand that ALL the gifts are for the edifying of the body, and NOT for the individual.
Speaking in languages is not for evangelizing? Poppycock. in Acts 2, what did the hearers do after hearing the apostles speak languages they shouldn't have been able to know? They listened to Peter preach the gospel, and thousands were saved. In Acts 10, after they heard the newly saved speak in languages, they realized the gospel was for everyone. In 1 Cor 14, we are told that speaking in languages is a sign for the unbeliever, but that prophesy is better because it reveals their hearts. Speaking in languages gets their attention and prepares them for the gospel; this is a necessary step for evangelism.
The gifts are not for ourselves. We don't prophesy to ourselves; we aren't apostles to ourselves; we don't heal ourselves. As Paul admonishes in all these verses, we are to seek to the edifying of the body.
I forbid not to speak in languages; but don't make it a private affair. Seek to the edifying of others; minister to others as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion forever and ever. Amen. (1 Peter 4:10)
Thomas Helwys
New Member
I'm glad it's all of you who are still arguing/debating this subject and not me. 
So now you are saying that they spoke in tongues before the day of Pentecost? Jesus said those that believe their preaching..these signs will follow. He was telling the disciples to go and preach!
I showed in my previous post that it was! Jesus predicted the baptism was coming...In Acts 2 it came...and tongues was was the sign that they heard and saw as Peter said!
Again, are you saying that tongues was before the day of Pentecost?
I agree that the miracles signs and wonders were to confirm the message!
How did the Jews know that the Gentiles had received the Holy Spirit just as they did in Acts 2? Because they spoke in tongues...just like they did!
evangelist-7
New Member
IMHO, one needs to be in possession of the baptism with the Holy Spirit ...
in order to spiritually understand anything about it and the 9 spiritual gifts in 1 Cor 12.
Explaining these things to almost anyone is like talking to a brick wall.
Spiritual truths about such topics as these are nicely hidden in Scripture
so as not to upset those who have not been given them.
Another simple example is the Trinity ... basically only accepted by spiritual revelation.
And I'm not talking about those having blind faith from birth.
Many church-goers do not believe in the Trinity, or even that Jesus is God.
.
What you ignore is that hands were not laid on them in Acts 10! Simon SAW something manifest! What did he see? Can you see someone receive the indwelling Holy Spirit? NO! It was the the Spirit UPON...baptism! ANd every example given of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit UPON is shown by the manifestation of tongues.
So are you saying that statement is false? It is plain to me that the Holy Spirit came upon them the same as it did in Acts 2!
Again as I posted you have to ignore scriptures to believe otherwise. I showed you where Acts 10 they received the Holy Spirit without laying on of hands! Also scriptures says that we are to ask for the Holy Spirit...and God will not give his children a stone or something evil if we ask! He does not say that you go to the apostles and they will lay hands on you! He said ASK!
So now I am demonic led because I do not believe your interpretation? Well, I will believe scriptures that do not contradict other scriptures before I believe your interpretation!
You need to read vs.15-19 again! Because praying with understanding is praying something you yourself understands! Praying in the spirit you do not understand! Paul is clear about the difference in vs. 19 when he says words HE HIMSELF understands! Paul said he spoke in tongues (something he does not understand) BUT in church he would rather speak in words with HIS understanding. THe contrast is plain and vs. 2 confirms what he said!
NO, I am not confused! My confusion was before! Now the scriptures do not contradict each other and I do not have to add to them or ignore them to believe the way you do!
No demonic utterance! But I understand that some of those in Acts 2 thought the worse of those speaking in tongues too!
Then they can make that same conclusion that you have made about me and the Word that I present! But my peace comes from God and not man!
WHo were they preaching to in Acts 10?
In Act 8, Philip had already preached the gospel they received it and were baptized (vs. 12) before hands were laid on them in vs.17. Something was manifested in vs. 18 for Simon to SEE! If ACts 2 and 10 shows that tongues were manifested when they received the Holy Spirit...why would they not here?
Acts 19 who were they preaching to?
Again you as others claim that edifying of self is bad but Jude tells us too "But ye, beloved, building up your selves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost"...
Paul also says that tongues/praying in the spirit edifys self!
It is ok for you to build yourselves up in faith praying and reading the Word or worshipping by yourself! No where does it say that tongue can not be done in private! As a matter of fact Paul says that if you do not have the interpretation than you should keep it between you and God in vs. 28! Vs. 2 says it is speaking to God! Nowhere does it say we can not speak to God in private! ONLY IN CHURCH are we to not speak in tongues UNLESS we have the interpretation!
Acts 2 was the initial pouring out! Of course it would be different!
So you are saing they were not speaking to God when other scriptues says that you can speak to God about his wonderful works?
"Many, O LORD my God, are the wonders you have done. The things you planned for us no one can recount to you; were I to speak and tell of them, they would be too many to declare." (Psalms 40:5)
"Say to God, "How awesome are your deeds! So great is your power that your enemies cringe before you."" (Psalms 66:3)
Peter said THIS that you now hear and see in vs. 33!
The first part of Joel is not judgement..it is a description of what just happened. They thought the disciples were drunk but Peter said THIS is not a drunken party so to speak BUT it is what Joel prophesied about!
If they were preaching in tongues ...then why did Peter turn around and preach again? Why did it take Peters word before they repented?
They had just witnessed the pouring out of the Holy Spirit and Peter explained that Because of what Jesus did on the cross! We now have the promise of the Holy Spirit! IT was offered to ALL ...as many as the Lord our God shall call!
So your point is - speaking in languages wasn't evangelizing? For showing people the power of God?
NO. I said using the gifts for self is bad.
NO. You refuse to read 1 Cor 14:4 in context. Paul is not saying "speaking in languages is edifying to self"; he's saying, "speaking in languages is edifying only to yourself." What does he say next? "Greater is he...that the church may receive edifying."
PLEASE re-read the verses I posted about this subject; 1 Cor 12, 1 Cor 14, Eph 4. The spiritual gifts are NOT for our own personal use; they are for the building up of the body.
EXCEPT - as I asked you to prove some time back in a previous thread, and you were unable - there are NO scriptural examples of anyone speaking or praying in languages by themselves. It was ALWAYS a public event, witnessed by others. If I'm wrong, please provide the scripture that proves it.
Good! Then treat it as different. They did not pray. They spoke! They spoke of the wonderful works of God. That is what it says, nothing more.
I am saying what the Scriptures say! Stick to the Word of God.
The Scriptures say: They spoke the wonderful works of God. This is what they were proclaiming. God doesn't have to know what works he did. They were telling the people of the works that Christ did.
And this has to do with Russian tea, how? A total non sequitor.
What did Peter say in verse 33?
Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
--He was speaking of Christ. They, the apostles were witnesses of Christ and his resurrection. Him has God exalted. This is the conclusion of Peter's message. What is your point here?
He is speaking to the very ones that had crucified Christ.
They had both seen and heard Christ. Now they saw, not the Holy Spirit, but just some of the supernatural phenomena--a sound of a mighty rushing wind, cloven tongues of fire, and speaking in other languages. That is what they say. The speaking in languages was a sign to unbelieving Jews (all of them), that if they did not take heed to what was being said judgment would come.
Out of approximately 100,000 present only 3,000 took heed. The rest rejected what Peter said.
I can declare unto you what God has done; all of his mighty works. But that won't save you. You need to hear the gospel, and the gospel explained. That is what Peter preached--Christ and Christ crucified.
The Holy Spirit is spirit. One cannot see spirit. They did not witness the Spirit. These were unsaved and wicked Jews who had just put Christ to death. They were some of the most wicked people in the history of the world. Their hearts were truly depraved. Here stood the Pharisees and Sadducees, the elite members of the Sanhedrin--the very ones that had ordered the crucifixion of Christ. They didn't witness the outpouring of the Spirit. They witnessed some supernatural phenomena which could be seen. The Holy Spirit came and indwelt those that believed.
If all you have is the promise of the Holy Spirit then you are not saved.
You must have the Holy Spirit dwelling in you. That is what happened on that day. Those that believed were indwelt with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit did not come on all flesh. That is a future event, yet to take place.
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