By all means, please tell us what they were doing on the Day of Pentecost and in Acts 10 when they spoke in tongues; and which two manifestations of the gift of the Holy Spirit were not operational in the Old Testament and the Gospels; and what is so unique about speaking in tongues.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Seeking truth about "tongues"...
- Thread starter lugnut1009
- Start date
- Status
Do you have answers?
The people in the crowd said, "we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!" In other words, the disciples were praising God, telling Him of His wonders.
"While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. The circumcised [Jewish] believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God." (Acts 10:44-46)
The two manifestation not in the OT or the gospels is tongues and interpretation of tongues.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
In Acts 2 the gift of Tongues is given and "each person heard the speak in their own language" and a list of nations and languages is then given.
The Gift of Tongues is used for evangelism according to 1Cor 14 it is "for the unbeliever" it is to reach the unbeliever as we see in Acts 2- speaking the language of the nations we are trying to reach with the Gospel.
In 1Cor 14:1 God says to "desire earnestly spiritual gifts".
Some suppose that he means "despise earnestly spiritual gifts after the first century is over" --- but as we all on this board know - that simply is not what the Bible says on the subject.
Thus tongues (speaking the language of other people so we can evangelize them) is a key gift for outreach and is nothing like what is passing as tongues within the popular pulpits of today.
in Christ,
Bob
It is SIGN to unbelievers. So what sign is it? What does the sign tell an unbeliever?
Trust me, in the 10 years I spent in a Church of God church I've heard their side of this debate. And quite frankly the only scriptural backing I can recall is picking out singular verses instead of using them in context to confirm to them that the "utterance" is for etifying them.
I don't get how anyone can think that hearing someone babble sounds (usually repeatitive) that don't even resemble a language at all would help anyone, especially an unbeliever. If they don't believe in God, why would they want to be a part of something that is so strange they want to get out the building that this is happening in. Trust me, I've been there! And I was already saved, just very uncomfortable and VERY confused. I can see however that using a known language with someone present that can comprehend what is being said would definitely benefit God's kingdom and possibly bring them to Christ. I mean, if I was surrounded by people, and no one spoke English, then all of a sudden someone spoke in English (especially if in my dialect) I would definitely listen closely!!
It's not that I don't want to discuss this, I hate it when this discussion turns into an argument. Like all the other threads about this turns into. I have even requested that this thread get locked so that it doesn't turn into that. It is a big discouragement to people (especially young believers) when attempting to learn more and read about the word instead find supposedly mature professing believers arguing like what they find on other secular forums. We should hold ourselves to a higher standard than that.
Ok, I'm off my soapbox... :godisgood::godisgood::godisgood::godisgood:
Sorry, I thought we were discussing what the Bible said about tongues...
Forgive me if I came across harsh, not my intention at all.
So - since you want to keep acting like a teacher, instead of presenting your position and then allowing debate on it - what does the sign tell an unbeliever?
1 Cor. 14:19-22 offers the only Biblical based context design for explaining the Divine purpose for the gift of tongues.
1. It is not designed to be used in the church - v. 19
The reason it is not designed for use in the church is because it is designed as a special "sign" gift to the nation of Israel for TWO things!
a. To confirm the Messiah, the promised "rest" has arrived
b. To warn Israel of the consquences of refusing this sign
Isaiah predicts they will reject this "sign" and the Messiah and Jerusalem will be destroyed. Hence, both purposes of the sign for the nation Israel have been fulfilled.
2. It is not designed for "believers" but unbelievers -
However, this is how Pentecostal churches exercise escatic utterances
3. It is not designed for "unbelievers" who are "unlearned" or without knowledge of the Old Testament Scriptures, and thus would not recognize its value as a "sign" as the "unlearned" will think those speaking in tongues are CRAZY! Because it will be unintelligble to them. Only the learned "unbeliever" the jew will recognize its value as a "sign." The value of a "sign" is previous instruction in regard to its meaning or it is worthless and unintelligble.
It is the ability to speak known dialects for missionary purposes unto the dispersed Jewish nation which were found scattered throughout the world who were raised with diverse dialects. The nation rejected the sign of the coming Messiah as predicted and the consequences for rejecting this sign was fulfilled.
I was told about two Hebrew students who attended a large Pentecostal church in Los Angeles California who got up in a tongue speaking and interpreting service and quoted Psalm 23 in Hebrew. Immediately there were interpretations given that had no connection with what was quoted.
Modern day escatic speaking and interpretations are results of the flesh and many times of Satan and the bottom line evidence is the "confusion" of doctrine and practice that ecstatic utterances attempt to confirm as from God - thus "lying" signs - Deut. 13;1-5; 2 Thes. 2:9
Last edited by a moderator:
If it is not designed to be used in the church then why does Paul give intructions on the order of tongues in a church?
Believers do not need a sign, they already believe.
Well lets start with Acts 2...
The unbelievers were in doubt and confused about what they heard on the day of Pentecost. So these disciples were not explaining the gospel in tongues. It was Peter standing up and explaining what was happening. He expounded on Joel 2. It was a sign that the Holy Spirit was being poured out!
Can you show me an example in scripture of tongues being used to to evangelize? In Acts 2 they were not evangelizing in tongues. Peter did the preaching.
Which is something that's already been agreed upon in this and other threads (except for the part about being confused about what they heard; they knew what they heard, and even stated exactly what they heard, each in their own languages; they were confused because they didn't understand how it was possible).
It really would be helpful, and less time-consuming, if you would just make your statements/points, so we can get to discussing them.
Paul has already provided the guidelines for the use of any gift in the church - the law of edification. The gift of tongues was not designed for church use. However, if it is going to be used in the church there are strict guideliness so that it comes under the laws of edification and descency and order. In the church it is LIMITED to two three at most. This demonstrates it was never designed for church use. Outside the church among lost Jews there are no limitations, no need for an interpreter, no guidelines.
Second, it is used for evangelism to the Jews as it is used as a "sign" that gets their attention then the gospel is preached .
Your kind of tongue speaking is common esctatic languages - this is not the Biblical gift.
The Biblical kind is also gibberish in the context of a non Jewish audiance so that an intepreter is essential to understand it. In a Jewish audiance no need for interpreter.
Paul's point is clear, he will not pray in tongues, speak in tongues, preach in tongues, sing in tongues, bark in tongues, howl in tongues unless it falls into the category of edification so that his mind is fruitful and he can do it with understanding. If it cannot be understood with the mind it is worthless for edification - vv. 5-10.
There are no spiritual gifts designed for SELF, but to minister to others. Pentecostalism is charactreristical a SELF religion.
- Status