Self Esteem

All the verses you put are ones that I agree with and that fit exactly into what I am saying. My challenge again, is for you to show a place where Scripture says that the answer to problems is self-esteem. So far everyone here arguing your position is not providing Scriptural support for it.

The scripture verses I listed do exactly that. You simply refuse to accept the idea that biblical self-esteem is acceptible.

 

Which of those verses say that we deal with personal problems by increasing self-esteem?? Can you quote the relevant portion of the verses that do so?

My simple refusal is to try to fix problems in ways that the Bible does not prescribe. However, I am willing for you to show me your teaching in Scripture.

 

The Bible should be sufficient to discount any idea of exalting one's self. But for those of you having difficulty in believing the Bible, here is how the Dictionary defines it.
Main Entry: self-es·teem
Pronunciation: -&-'stEm
Function: noun
Date: 1657
1 : a confidence and satisfaction in oneself : SELF-RESPECT
2 : SELF-CONCEIT

 

I certainly do have self-confidence issues. I am
fighting them right now, as I have been over the
past four weeks, specifically. Usually, I just
brush them off, ignoring them, but when I try to
get back in school, they aways crop up.

I will never forget my first C in college. Well, my
only C, I guess, but a C nonetheless. I did not at
all handle it well. And I got it the same semester I
got the B in English from the prof who would not
give As.

That old "You're just too stupid"' thought crashes
through my mind and wreaks havoc on my
defenses. I try to shake it off, but I am not always
successful.

And now, I am trying to take some classes--just
two, now that one is finished, plus a home-study
course. I am not doing very well. And the tape
plays on: "You are too stupid."

Often, I have given up and tried to go on with other
things, but the nagging thought continues that I
fulfill my mother's prophecy each time I give up
or each time I do not get the A.

This is a real issue for me, not just a philosophy
on a screen, and it is real to others. We have
prayed, we have thought we have given it to our
God, we have taken the advice to get our minds off
ourselves and onto our God, but the issue will
reappear when certain issues arise once again.
I have learned, throuh the years, that pushing
something out of the mind and replacing it with
something else only leaves that "monster"
covered up; it will make a starring appearance
again and again until it is dealt with completely
and put to a permanent, impenetrable death.
I am just not there yet with this problem.

The critics of those of us with such problems
tell us that we are thinking too much of ourselves,
or the problem would not exist. 8o) Perhaps
some may do this (and indeed, I have seen this
myself in self-absorbed persons--some morbidly
self-absorbed), but I suggest that this quick-fix
solution is more of a self-help quasi-science than
anything those of us on the other side have
brought up.

So what am I doing to counteract this problem
this time? Without going into the spiritual aspects
of what I am doing, I will say this: I haven't
dropped the class, and I have no intention of
doing so--I am just working harder at it.

 

There are many definitions for self-esteem.

Some have a good connotation and others do not, but you will note that the more recent dictionaries seem to have a good meaning.


3 entries found for self-esteem.
self-es·teem (slf-stm)
n.
Pride in oneself; self-respect.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.



self-esteem

\Self`-es*teem"\, n. The holding a good opinion of one's self; self-complacency.


Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.


self-esteem

n 1: a feeling of pride in yourself [syn: self-pride] 2: the quality of being worthy of esteem or respect: "it was beneath his dignity to cheat"; "showed his true dignity when under pressure" [syn: dignity, self-respect, self-regard]


Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University


As to Pastor Larry's quote about "feeling good about oneself" not solving problems. Why not?

If we are to love one another as one's self, it seems that we should love ourselves. I think we are going round and round with this thread because of the many definitions of self-esteem.

I agree that self-esteem without trust in God is not good, but is anything good without God?

 

Good post Betty!

"Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than themselves." Philippians 2:3

That verse says nothing about not esteeming ourselves, it just says we are to esteem others more than we do ourselves.


Sue

 

Because Scripture never presents that as a proper approach to dealing with problems. For a people who are bound by Scripture, where Scripture speaks to an issue (like dealing with problems) then we must follow its dictates. We are not free to create our own.

Not at all. That verse, as has been pointed out, assumes that we love ourselves and points out that love of self is not the driving force of life.

I think we are going round and round because no one is able or willing to show that Scripture deals with problems by increasing self-esteem.

 

So help me understand why you are thinking about yourself? Why is an A B or C in a class that important? Do you have a scriptural basis for elevating it to the level to which you have?

This is not merely a philosophical issue on the screen for me. It is something that I Must deal with on a regular basis. The reality is, that so long as we are in this body, this problem of self-thought will never be finally and totally put to death. IT is called the sin nature and the essence of sin is the exaltation of self over God and everything else. I fight it every day. Somtimes when someone walks by me without complementing my message I am tempted to wonder if I didn't do a good enough job. That is a sinful way to think. I need to be thinking about them.

The fight takes place in the mind and the Scripture says that we are transformed by the renewing of the mind so that we can know what God's will is. We must renew our minds on a constant basis.

To call the renewing of the mind a "quick fix" or a "self help quasi science" seems to me to question the authority of Scripture for our lives, even (or especially) for our problems. Christians are convinced that Scripture has the answers for eternity and church. But for some reason, they will not be convinced that it has the answers for other life problems. And so, rather than being radically biblical, they jettison certain ideas while importing others from sources outside of Scripture.

That is why I keep asking for people to give an example from Scripture where self-esteem is the answer to a problem. So far, no one has yet presented a place. Is not the silence on this matter deafening?? It should be.

Without knowing the spiritual aspects, I would say this is a proper approach so far as it goes.

 

C.S. Lewis says in *Mere Christianity* that a truly humble man is not thinking about being humble,he is not thinking about himself at all....

Self Esteem is contradictory to what we learn in scripture about ourselves,a Holy God,and others. Like pastor Larry says,scripture just does not support it. But,we all fight it as long as we are flesh. Our thoughts should be on how great God is and the other person.

 

Hi! I can't remember now who had put the long
------ line in their post, but it runs your post, and
everyone else's posts, off my computer so far that
I cannot read them. Could you (Pretty Please with
chocolate on it) cut your line in half so that I can
read what everyone is writing? THANK YOU!!! 8o)

I hate this cable TV Internet service! Don't get it!

- - - - - - - - - -

So help me understand why you are thinking about yourself? Why is an A B or C in a class that important? Do you have a scriptural basis for elevating it to the level to which you have?</font>[/QUOTE]Larry, the grades are merely incidental, but they
are in place to measure whether or not I am
learning, whether I need to work harder, or to tell
me if I am succeeding. Obviously, when the grade
is low, something is wrong, and adjustmnts need to
be made.

But what if the confidence is not there? What if the
necessary material cannot be learned because
this cannot be overcome? I already talked to my
teacher yesterday and told him that I am going to
have to repeat the class next year, no matter what
my final grade is, because my lack of self-
confidence is preventing me from absorbing, and
in my circumstance, this is a major time-
management problem. My purpose is to learn the
material, not just to get a grade.

All of those who have tried to describe the idea
above in my hearing have definitely been into the
quick-fix self-help quasi-science mode. 8o) I
visited one church, at someone's invitation, some
time back, and they tried to explain it in a series of
sermons. It certainly fell in that category. 8o)

For me, all the help I have gotten for such issues
took time--and lots of it. It took good hard work
as well--and lots of it.

Larry, go over to the Arminian-Calvinism fight
and watch the Scripture-dropping there. It is
amazing. Each side drops proof-texts which are
sure to convince, sure to explain, sure to close the
discussion in triumph, but it never happens. Why?
Because the readers each individualy see
something in the texts that is so clear, so plain to
them, but the others see something else. Being
from both sides of that particular issue, I see both
sides in the Scriptures, while some others may
only see one side. I think the same thing is
happening here--no, I know it is.

". . . as far as it goes." What else could be
done, Larry? This is a serious issue for me--a
life-issue. I can see nothing pleasing to our God
in repeated lack of confidence issues or in having
to, for example, repeat classes because of these
issues.

[ February 06, 2003, 02:30 PM: Message edited by: Abiyah ]

 

Quote Pastor Larry

Pastor Larry,

Please explain for us that do not understand your reasoning on this matter just what is a proper approach to dealing with a problem, specifically a problem of lack of self-confidence, low-esteem, and not feeling good about one's self?

How are we creating our own approach when we are trusting God to guide us?

We must all place God first in our lives. Again, I say that I agree that self-esteem without trust in God is not good, but is anything good without God?


And Abiyah, we all set standards for ourselves to reach. Is this wrong in your eyes, Pastor Larry?

Further, Pastor Larry,

Is there a scripture to guide us in all aspects of our lives?

For example, does it tell us to build a parking lot for people to park at our church?

 

Pastor Larry, I request clarification: I certainly acknowlege that there is ungodly self esteem, which is negative and unbiblical. On that I'm sure we;re in agreement.

Are you saying that there is no such thing as Godly self esteem, or a Godly valuation of self worth?

 

Some people struggle with learning. But that should not be a matter of confidence. It can quite often be a matter of study techniques, a matter of diligence, a matter of mere ability to learn. The grades serve a good purpose to be sure. But I can't see where that is at issue.

On what Scriptural basis have you elevated the grades to the place you have? I think that is the core of teh issue. Are you responding biblically both in your perspectives and reactions. What does Scripture teach that is relevant to this issue?

YOu know I have spent lots of time over there. But here is the difference. Over there the arminians, as much as I disagree, are presenting Scripture to try to support their point. OVer here, no one has yet gone that far. That is a major difference. John, Helen, Betty and others are not giving even one place in Scripture where we are directed to deal with problems by increasing our self-esteem. Why not? Does that not seem strange to you that people are telling us to fix a problem without using Scripture to support it?

I cannot see where God addresses our confidence or lack thereof apart from the issue of Christ and teh cross. Paul boasts only in the cross; we are to have confidence in Christ. MY point with "as far as it goes" is that, not knowing whta else you have done, I cannot comment whether I believe it is scriptural or not. In other words, I am hedging myself against endorsing something I am not aware of. To me, the answer to "bad grades" (which is defined differently by different people) is to make sure our expectations are in line with our abilities and make sure we are putting in the effort. We are to do it in a manner that rightly reflects on God.

Why do you attach self-confidence issues to the matter of learning? What has drawn you to that connection?

 

My reasoning is this: Where does Scripture command us to feel a certain way about ourselves? We are repeatedly told to do a number of things in Scripture. "Have self-esteem" is not one of them. Why do you think that is?

I have seen no one who is arguing that we need greater self esteem give us any words from God that shows his guidance in this matter. That is my question: Where does God tell us to deal with problems by increasing our self-image or self-esteem.

I agree, but I do not see how this is relevant.

Not at all wrong. I did it in my own education. I missed my goal. It was okay. I remember the night I got thesis back from its initial reading. I had put well over 200 hours in on this thesis and my mentor asks, "Did you proofread this before you handed it in?" Then he says, "This is not what I would have expected from you." I was destroyed ... for a couple of hours and then I got my perspective. At no time did my "self image" cross my mind.

With all due respect, I think you have totally missed the point. Scripture address all things pertaining to life and godliness (2 PEter 1:3) and equips us for every good work (2 Tim 3:17). Clearly that deals with moral and spiritual issues, even those issues that affect our physical lives.

Scripture does not tell us to build a parking lot for the church. Scripture does command that the church meet together and thus we draw from that command to make applications for life regarding the building of a parking lot. But I think you knew the answer to this before you threw it out here

 

Scripture does not tell us to help people with low self-esteem. Scripture does command that we minister to others in need, including those with low self-esteem or with prideful self-esteem.

 

Okay, can anyone find a passage that supports what we know of as self-esteem? Pastor Larry has asked for Scripture that deals precisely with that. If it is such a godly concept, I would expect there to be at least something in the Bible.

Passages that teach the worth of human beings do not prove that self-esteem is biblical. God has placed worth on people because of all his creation, he has chosen man to fellowship with and stamp his image upon. God has commanded that we protect life. We may not treat man as an animal.

Paul of all people could say that self-esteem was good and helped him accomplish some of what he did. Instead, Paul said:

1 Corinthians 15:10

But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

and before he was saved:

Philippians 3:4

If anyone else thinks he may have confidence in the flesh, I more so...

Do these passages mean anything? He rejects confidence in the flesh. Confidence in the Spirit is not self-esteem. Therefore, such a concept is utterly unbiblical.

 

As Paul instructed, I am checking with my
husband.

 

Passages that teach the worth of human beings do not prove that self-esteem is biblical.

I disagree. Passages that affirm our Godly worth are exactly what Godly self esteem is all about. We are not to have a lesser view of ourselves that God thinks of us.

 

The one person in the Bible with the most self esteem was the Devil. See Isaiah 14. Others such as John the Baptist, Paul, even Jesus Himself according to popular humanistic thinking had a problem of low self esteem.
This is the real root of this heretical teaching-- "doctrines of devls". Why, should a believer and truster in the all-sufficeincy of Christ have any confidence, pride, self worth, self value, ad nauseum in sinful corrupt flesh?

 

Some here speak
of self-esteem1, some speak of
self-esteem2 the two are totally
different. On can have low self-respect,
it is a problem;
one should have low self-conceit.