self-esteem

[Ed Edwards]

1. a realistic respect for or favorable impression
of oneself; self-respect.
2. an inordinately or exaggeratedly favorable
impression of oneself.

(Origin: 1650–60)

So I think (it was said before) that
self-esteem1 = self-respect, is Biblical for
those who are 'in-Christ'.
self-esteem2 = inordinary self impression,
is a Biblical no-no (AKA: sin).

 

[Ed Edwards]

trustiti: //That is not self esteem in the psycho-babble sense.//

Why should be talk about 'self-esteem' in the
psycho-babble sense? We should talk about
'self-esteem' on the Baptist Board (BB) in
the Christian/Baptist sense.

2 Ti 2:14-15 (Geneva Bible, 1599 Edition):
Of these things put them in remembrance,
and protest before the Lord,
that they striue not about wordes,
which is to no profit,
but to the peruerting of the hearers.
15 Studie to shewe thy selfe approued
vnto God, a workeman that needeth not
to be ashamed, diuiding the worde of trueth aright.

I'm tired of the World stealing good Christian terms
away from us:

gay (to a discreption of a class of sinners)
fundamentalist (same as 'Bigot)'
love ;(turned to lust)
grace (a prayer for a meal)
spiritual (to a meaningless word)
by God (to BIGOT)
Christ (to a curseword)

They don't get 'self-esteem' - I claim it in
Jesus' name & on His behalf.

Our only source of self-esteem is IN CHRIST.

 

[reformedbeliever]

Paul's self image: (1) "This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief" (1 Tim. 1:15). (2) "For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God" (1 Cor. 15:9). (3) "For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing" (Rom. 7:18).

John the Baptist's self image: "He must increase, but I must decrease" (John 3:30).

God's image of us: created in His image (Gen. 1:26), accepted in the beloved (Eph. 1:6), His friends if we obey Him (John 15:14), etc.

The Bible's prophecy of the self-esteem movement: "1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away" (2 Tim. 3:1-5). Pretty bad company for a self esteem proponent to be in, wouldn't you say?

Now, if we are complete in Christ (Col. 2:10), why would we want to worry about our own selves? The more we love ourselves, the more we think of ourselves, the more we pamper ourselves, the more difficult it is to walk with God. As for me, I'm with John: "He must increase, but I must decrease."

...............................:applause:

 

[Linda64]

Anything that has to do with focusing on "self"--be it self-esteem, self-image, self-worth, self ad-nauseum is not biblical. Our focus is to be on Christ, not on self. Self is our problem. Jesus said to "Deny self"

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Paul said in 2 Timothy 3:1-5:

2 Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2 Timothy 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

2 Timothy 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

2 Timothy 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

2 Timothy 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Jesus gave us two commandments (not three) in Matthew 22:37-40:

Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Matthew 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.

Matthew 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Matthew 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

We are to love God and love our neighbor as we (already) love self. Loving self is implied here...otherwise Jesus would have given us three commandments instead of two. The fact that we focus so much on self is indicative that we already "love self". We hate the circumstances in which we find ourselves, which is still focusing on self. Not one person hates themself:

Ephesians 5:29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

Two good resources which deal with the "self-esteem" topic are:

http://www.thebereancall.org/

http://www.psychoheresy-aware.org/mainpage.html

 

[Scarlett O.]

Linda64, I am not going to argue your point. I do not disagree with you.

I just want to ask you and the rest here who believe that self-esteem is anti-biblical and as one other person here has said, "as evil as it gets".

I really do want an legitimate answer and I am not looking for a debate.

What am I supposed to do with the little fat girl in my 4th grade class whose dad has repeatedly told her that she is both fat and stupid? And the little boy who just can't learn like everyone else and gets spankings at home every time he fails yet another test and who won't look me in eye and cowers in his seat?

I'm at a Christian school. Somehow, I just don't believe that telling them to deny themselves daily is the solution that is going to work.

I'm not disagreeing with what you say. I just want someone from your "camp" to answer that question.

 

[Ed Edwards]

If something is wrong with 'self-esteem' then we who
have a positive self-esteem are to help those who
have a weak self-esteem - The scirpture says so:

Rom 15:1 (Geneva Bible, 1599 Edition):
We which are strong, ought
to beare the infirmities of the weake,
and not to please our selues.

Yes, I think 'weak self-esteem' means that
the person has an infirmity. If you dis yourself
to much, you will get clinical depression

 

[trustitl]

QUOTE ByGracethroughFaith "I am nought but dung, and it is most joyful to know that."

You might say you are dung but if you are saved it might be better to say you were. God doesn't say you are dung, but you can if you want to. I am going to call myself the "righteousness of God". (I'll let you look that one up :thumbs: )

QUOTE ByGracethroughFaith
I agree with your first two sentences, and violently disagree with the 'we' in your third.
WE can't do righteousness of ourselves and can make no claim to it. Romans 7:15-25
ONLY Christ in us can do true righteousness. All commands for us towards righteousness are commands towards total submission to, and dependency on, Christ.

I never said we could do righteousness on our own apart from Christ. But how did people before Christ do righteousness?

Luke 1:5 THERE was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. 6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

IIPeter 2:7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: 8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds)

 

[trustitl]

self esteem

Brother Ed,

I agree to throw out the psycho-babylonians:thumbs: Good point.

 

[Ed Edwards]

//I'm dung, Christ is not, all esteem
(value, honour, merit etc.) is to be for Him alone.//

I agree - we should value, honor, merit to Messiah
Yeshua. However, dungy you was before you
got saved here is where your position is today,
Prince/Princess (Biblically Speaking, of course):

Ephesians 2:6 (Geneva Bible, 1599 Edition):
And hath raysed vs vp together,
and made vs sit together in the heauenly places
in Christ Iesus,

'In Christ Jesus' is a whole 'nother country'.

Your place is in the heavenlies, not in the compost
pile - 'in Jesus'.

 

[trustitl]

self esteem

QUOTE from Scarlett O. - What am I supposed to do with the little fat girl in my 4th grade class whose dad has repeatedly told her that she is both fat and stupid? And the little boy who just can't learn like everyone else and gets spankings at home every time he fails yet another test and who won't look me in eye and cowers in his seat?

God bless you Scarlett O. You have already done the most important thing: you care! But, don't stop there because you need to lover her in deed and in truth. Even though you are going to want to, don't tell her she isn't fat because she won't believe you anyway. Plus it seems to add to the lie that not being really matters. Keep loving her for who she is, not what she is or what she does. Both of those are vain attempts being done by the secular self esteem crowd.

She is a little child created in the image of God.

1. Let God be God. In other words, you are not going to fix all of her problems. Just make yourself available to be used by God however he sees fit. (To many people are using God how they see fit).
2. Be her teacher (not her friend). That is what God has called you to isn't it?
3. Pray for her without ceasing.
4. Be patient.

Beyond that, in matters of practical things pray for God to give you insight to meet the needs of her broken little heart.raying:

 

[trustitl]

self esteem

Brother Ed wrote:
'In Christ Jesus' is a whole 'nother country'.

Your place is in the heavenlies, not in the compost
pile - 'in Jesus'.

Well said again!

 

[Alex Quackenbush]

what're your thoughts on this issue?

self esteem?

should we have high self esteem?
should we have low self esteem?

should there be any idea of self esteem at all?

is any of it biblical?

Self-esteem is based on how you view yourself, others and the world around you. A mature adult will view themselves in a mature way, regardless of whether they are a Christian or not. They will know their strengths and weaknesses. They will acknowledge both and make decisions in life based on these (along with other things). The mature human will also appreciate and acknowledge the strengths of others and will have grown beyond childish naivety with the capacity to identify weaknesses in others without it leading to utter contempt. Self-esteem is a psychological state, not a spiritual one.

Spiritual self-esteem has to do with our condition before God. It functions based on the Word of God. The more doctrine you take in and believe, the more you grow and move to a mature spiritual self-esteem.

An example of psuedo-Spiritual self-esteem would be false humility. Often this is characterized by Christians who are eager to always label themselves humble, they describe themselves in dramatically negative terms to attempt to portray a very humble disposition that rejects the world and claims to love Jesus a great deal. Instead that is based in arrogance and rejection of true biblical humility and is human effort taking the place of biblical humility.

As you mature in Christ over time, you will go from childhood to adolescence to adulthood where the greatest Spiritual self-esteem is experienced. You will understand all of your divine spiritual assets as a church age believer, you will utilize them to their fullest and be engaged in spiritual understanding of complex realities of Bible doctrine referred to as meat. Your Spiritual self-esteem will be greatest here and it is here where the truest humility is experienced, where Christ is indeed increased and you have decreased through years of taking in God's Word, believing and applying it and maturing to this point.

But psychological self-esteem is for all humans. That simply is having a mature orientation to yourself, others, and your environment.

 

[ByGracethroughFaith]

QUOTE ByGracethroughFaith "I am nought but dung, and it is most joyful to know that."

You might say you are dung but if you are saved it might be better to say you were. God doesn't say you are dung, but you can if you want to. I am going to call myself the "righteousness of God". (I'll let you look that one up :thumbs: )

I have no problem with you calling yourself the 'righteousness of God', which has nothing to do with self-esteem. The problem is when you call yourself the 'righteousness of Trustlitl' which is a good picture of what self-esteem means.

Rom 3:22-23 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Rom 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness , have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

QUOTE ByGracethroughFaith
I agree with your first two sentences, and violently disagree with the 'we' in your third.
WE can't do righteousness of ourselves and can make no claim to it. Romans 7:15-25
ONLY Christ in us can do true righteousness. All commands for us towards righteousness are commands towards total submission to, and dependency on, Christ.

I never said we could do righteousness on our own apart from Christ. But how did people before Christ do righteousness?

Luke 1:5 THERE was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. 6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

IIPeter 2:7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: 8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds)

With Christ being eternal, there were no people before Christ. Though a worldly horrible example, Lot's righteousness was still found in Christ.


BGTF

 

[ByGracethroughFaith]

Linda64, I am not going to argue your point. I do not disagree with you.

I just want to ask you and the rest here who believe that self-esteem is anti-biblical and as one other person here has said, "as evil as it gets".

I really do want an legitimate answer and I am not looking for a debate.

What am I supposed to do with the little fat girl in my 4th grade class whose dad has repeatedly told her that she is both fat and stupid? And the little boy who just can't learn like everyone else and gets spankings at home every time he fails yet another test and who won't look me in eye and cowers in his seat?

Here is what I might tell them, "though all the world forsake them, and Satan tempt them sore, through Jesus they shall safely reach the goal"

Being isolated in Christ is not a bad thing, and though considered fat, ugly or stupid, Christ will still receive them if they come to Him on His terms. This is what I told a young suicidal drug addict who kept wanting to find something good in herself, but couldn't find it.

"Your problem is you are looking for something that isn't there. You have been told that the answer to your problem lies within, and you haven't found it. I don't imagine you will ever find it if you keep looking inside yourself. All you will see is failure, and a fallen person. How do I know you ask? That is what I saw in myself, and that is what the Bible tells me I should see, BUT it also didn't leave me there. What you need to do now is look elsewhere for the cure, which is what I had to do, and many others have done as well. That place is to the cross of Christ, where he put my sins away AND gave me power to walk new. If Christ can save a vile, miserable, wretch like me, He can easily handle your sin."

She decided that night to trust Christ.

I'm at a Christian school. Somehow, I just don't believe that telling them to deny themselves daily is the solution that is going to work.

Denying themselves is not an ending but a beginning. If these children never learn what true self-denial means, they will not learn what it means to walk with Christ. Christ has already made it easy for you with them, by bringing them low, exactly where an evangelist tries to get bring people-to low thoughts of themselves-so that he can apply the cure of souls.

If you are at a Christian school, Christ holds you accountable to teach them this, not all that mushy psychobabble. It is easy to tell people easy things like "God loves you" etc., but the Christian also has to tell the world hard things, like "Apart from Christ you are absolutely nothing". If all a person can do is the first one, they need an introduction to the Saviour.

It was Christ who said:

Luke 9:23-24 ...If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. 24 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.

I'm not disagreeing with what you say. I just want someone from your "camp" to answer that question.

I hope I have answered your question satisfactorally.

Now I am counting on you to go show those two children how to walk with the Saviour.


BGTF

 

[John of Japan]

Linda64, I am not going to argue your point. I do not disagree with you.

I just want to ask you and the rest here who believe that self-esteem is anti-biblical and as one other person here has said, "as evil as it gets".

I really do want an legitimate answer and I am not looking for a debate.

What am I supposed to do with the little fat girl in my 4th grade class whose dad has repeatedly told her that she is both fat and stupid? And the little boy who just can't learn like everyone else and gets spankings at home every time he fails yet another test and who won't look me in eye and cowers in his seat?

I'm at a Christian school. Somehow, I just don't believe that telling them to deny themselves daily is the solution that is going to work.

I'm not disagreeing with what you say. I just want someone from your "camp" to answer that question.

Scarlett, I'm sure you do a wonderful job with those kids with your experience and spiritual burden for them. But let me share how I would seek to help them.

(1) We are made in the image of God. This means we each have great potential, and that is how we should think of ourselves. No child is stupid in God's sight.

(2) God has a will for each one of us. Thus we should be content with our personalities, abilities and gifts, physical looks, etc. Rather than being downhearted at how we look and what we can do, we should give thanks for how we look. No child is ugly or useless in God's sight.

(3) To me (and I'm sure you too), "Love your neighbor" points out the incredible importance of relationships. Children are in desperate need of relationships with loving Christian adults. This is where the school teacher, SS teacher, pastor and others come in. We can't replace the parents in a child's life but we can help. Howard Hendricks led an extremely unhappy and hurt childhood, but God brought folk into his life, so look at the tremendous spiritual leader he is today!

(4) To me (and I'm sure you too), teaching a child to "Love God" is the most important thing we can do for them. Thus, the child's salvation is incredibly important. Then of course discipling the child after salvation is, too. I'm thankful my parents had a contest with us kids, and gave a Bible to each of us who read the NT through. I was just a little guy, so I only had to read John through, but that started a life-long habit.

(5) Helping a child deal with the sin in his or her life is, in my view, far more important than the secular view of self esteem. When you tell a kid, "You're wonderful, believe that," in my experience they think, "I don't know about that." But when you say, "You are a sinner but God loves you anyway," they'll agree with that. Kids know right from wrong. I remember how important learning 1 John 1:9 was to me in childhood. I remember clearly knowing I was a sinner by age 4. How to handle that awful knowledge, and learning how God puts our sins away as far as the east is from the west is very liberating.

(6) I believe in helping children have accomplishments and successes. This is the old view of self confidence rather than self esteem. Some Christian psychologists use this concept as part of their teaching and call it self esteem, but it is far older than the self esteem view. From what I've read many secular views of self esteem leave it out. In our family this was particularly important. We tried to give our son some skills and successes for when he had to adjust to an American college after growing up in Japan. His first year was extremely difficult, he tells us, but having good study skills and a black belt in kung fu helped him. He founded a martial arts ministry at his college, then graduated with honors.

I hope this clarifies my view.

God bless.

 

[John of Japan]

Folks, let me share something from the old days before the term self image became entrenched in evangelical Christianity in the early 1970's. I'm going to give you some quotes from Nervous Christians, a 1956 book by Christian psychiatrist L. Gilbert Liddle, MD (Chicago: Moody Press). There is also a final chapter by Theodore Epp, who you old timers will remember. These quotes should help you know what evangelical Christians used to think about the subject of the OP. And by the way, the book is full of illustrations of people who were helped by his counseling. And my own counseling experience confirms to me that his viewpoint is right.

"Just because the world is worshiping at the modern shrine of psyche does not prove that God's program is failing to give peace to the hearts and minds of those who put their trust in the Lord Jesus. It simply shows that Satan is battling for the minds of men through his gigantic psychological propaganda, denying that man has a soul and placing therapeutic emphasis on the mind as the seat of fear, anxiety, worry, maladjustment and nervousness" (p. 10; his point is that these problems are rooted in the heart, not the mind--JoJ).

"Too often I find that the Christians who are unable to re-establish their relationship with God by reading the Bible and praying have not truly repented of their self-will, self-love, self-trust, and self-exaltation" (p. 21).

"I have never heard any adult patient blame his fear or nervousness on teachings of the shed blood of Christ on Calvary. I have had patients tell me, however, that when they were children they worried for years, fearing that the world would come to an end and they would go to hell" (p. 40).

"The fearful person is so completely absorbed with his fears that his mind is able to grasp only a small portion of what is spoken to him. This means that the greater portion of his thinking is bound up with self" (p. 68; I found this to be true through counseling a Japanese schizophrenic girl--JoJ).

"Some patients are controlled by more pride than others; the ego, 'I,' self-esteem, must be guarded. How often have we heard this remark, 'I would not want to go to my pastor; he knows all about me!" (p. 71; I believe this is the only place the term self esteem occurs in the book--JoJ).

"Jesus Christ and the apostles did not spend time expounded psychological theories of man; they preached the gospel. Psychology appeals to the mind. The gospel appeals to the heart" (p. 103).