sensitive questions

[pinoybaptist]

hello, all....

I am doing a Bible study on incestous relationships and would appreciate inputs.
Prohibitions against incestous relationships between father/daughter, mother/son, are pretty easy to find and pinpoint, but where do we find prohibitions against uncles/nieces, especially if these are between those with half/half relationships, like children of half-brothers, or of half-sisters, aunts/nephews, cousins and the like ?
I am also doing this Bible study for the benefit of someone in the Philippines who I suspect may be involved in a like sin.
If this is too sensitive a topic for those who we think should not read about it (like young people joining the board) just let me know and let's drop it.
Thanks for any input.

 

[Bro. James Reed]

I suppose a good question would be, how far removed can one be from a relative to be considered not in an incestuous relationship with that person?

Case in point:

My g-g grandparents on my mother's paternal side were 2nd cousins once removed. They even had the same last names before marriage. Was that an incestuous relationship? It didn't seem to be considered so back then.

 

[pinoybaptist]

I suppose a good question would be, how far removed can one be from a relative to be considered not in an incestuous relationship with that person?

Case in point:

My g-g grandparents on my mother's paternal side were 2nd cousins once removed. They even had the same last names before marriage. Was that an incestuous relationship? It didn't seem to be considered so back then.

Yes, Brother Reed, that would be a better way to rephrase the question. Is there a Biblical reference we can quote ?

 

[Bro. James Reed]

Yes, Brother Reed, that would be a better way to rephrase the question. Is there a Biblical reference we can quote ?

I don't know of any in regards to a relationship involving cousins. I suspect it's more of a cultural thing as far as that goes.

I have cousins who I would legally be allowed to marry, but I'm as close to them as my own immediate family, being raised so close together, so it would just be too weird.

If it's a relationship through marriage, such as step-siblings, I would not have an issue with a step-brother/sister getting married, although many, I'm sure, would.

Other than the few scriptures plainly taught as part of the OT law, I really don't know of any scriptural prohibitions against so-called incestuous relationships.

I think common sense should prevail in such cases.

 

[Helen]

Hi pinoy, just saw this...

Incestuous relationships were not defined in the Bible until the time of Moses -- before that there were not enough heritable negative mutations to be a risk. But from that time on, the genetic load has been building enough that close relations of any sort are at risk of carrying the same recessive negative mutations which can then be passed on to the children, resulting in mild to severe birth defects or death.

Thus, the best idea is to marry across racial and ethnic lines if you are concerned about the health of your children! The closer the family ties, the more likely problems are to occur.

Like all forms of godly morality, the prohibition against incest was for our own good. This can now be extended by genetics to show why it is for our good and indicate what the best possible chances for a healthy family are.

This won't go over well with racists, I know, but that is simply the way it is.

In the Philippines, as in any isolated peoples, there is a great deal of intermarriage and thus of interbreeding. This is not healthy, but it happens, and God is still in charge of the conceptions, the problems, and the blessings.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Thanks for the input, Helen.

I appreciate it. But actually, incest is not that big a problem in my country and among my people, though it does veer its ugly head every now and then.

Like this time when this fella insists his niece is not really his full niece because her mother is only his half sister. Not the same father.

Sounds pretty much how a cousin can be once, twice, or thrice removed.

I think he's wrong, though.

 

[Jkdbuck76]

.....if not creepy.

 

[Bro. James Reed]

Thanks for the input, Helen.

I appreciate it. But actually, incest is not that big a problem in my country and among my people, though it does veer its ugly head every now and then.

Like this time when this fella insists his niece is not really his full niece because her mother is only his half sister. Not the same father.

Sounds pretty much how a cousin can be once, twice, or thrice removed.

I think he's wrong, though.

What would the man think about marrying his sister? She is only half, after all.

What would he think if his brother wanted his daughter?

 

[amity]

I think the law in most states now is no closer than a second cousin. I think that is 1:32 if I am not mistaken? Even with such distant relations, if repeated over generations there is a risk of problems. It just depends on what sort of latent genetic problems there are waiting to be expressed. Everyone carries many, many genetic mutations.

I know quite a few older people whose parents were first cousins and had no problems at all, though. Or did they have problems and just cover them up?

 

[pinoybaptist]

What would the man think about marrying his sister? She is only half, after all.

What would he think if his brother wanted his daughter?

I don't know, Brother Reed. I guess I'll ask him next time I talk to him.
But the guy is serious, though.
And I can understand what he is saying about their "just being half this and that", because he and I have the same situation.
I am my father and mother's only son, but have half-brothers and half-sisters from each parent.
Now, I am very close to my half-siblings on my father's side because I grew up with them and we do not much consider ourselves just "half's", and my stepmom treated me just like her own son, to the extent of allowing me to discipline my sisters and brothers like an older brother does,when we were growing up.

However, I have not met all of my half-siblings on my mother's side, except for a couple, and these very rarely, and do not feel that affinity and love that kin have for each other. I've met some of their children and do not have the same feeling of affinity and affection for them that I have for my half-brothers' and half-sisters (father's side).
So, when he talks like that, like, you know, "she's only my half-sister, anyway", I can understand where he's coming from.

I've been thinking about alerting his half-sister and half-brothers, who are actually our first cousins, (he is my nephew thru a cousin) but I may not have enough influence on them to do that (alert), and just end up being accused as rumor monger or troublemaker.

The reason I was looking for a Biblical reference is because although they are not professing Christians, they do listen to me when I quote Scripture because they know that I was once Marxist, and once held arms against the dictatorship, and all that jazz, and I wanted to show by Scripture that even children of half-siblings are too close in relationship to him for him to even think of what he was intimating.

I don't know. Could drugs be part of the reason for this convoluted thinking ?

This is one of those times when I wished my country were just as near as one plane ride away, or just a week's drive away.
I sure am hoping and praying this will just go away from his mind, and I don't hear unpleasant news one of these days.