Separation of Church and State...or Not?

[Zaac]

Obama talks about his faith

In an interview with the Washington National Cathedral magazine, President Obama discussed how his faith influenced his politics — saying that at the end of the day 'God is in control.'

“First and foremost, my Christian faith gives me a perspective and security that I don’t think I would have otherwise: that I am loved. That, at the end of the day, God is in control," Obama said.

Obama also tied faith in God to his belief in a compassionate role for government.


"Faith tells us that there is something about this world that ties our interest to the welfare of a child who can’t get the health care they need, or a parent who can’t find work after the plant shut down, or a family going hungry," Obama told the magazine.

"Faith has always provided a moral framework and vocabulary for this country to come to terms with its most pressing challenges. One of the great things about this nation is that it is a place where people from all walks of life can advocate on behalf of their faith and beliefs and be open about what drives and motivates them," Obama said.

"From slavery to the suffrage movement to civil rights, faith — and the moral obligations that derive from our faith — have always helped us to navigate some of our greatest moral challenges with a recognition that there’s something bigger than ourselves: we have obligations that extend beyond our own self-interest," Obama said.

Obama also briefly addressed the ongoing (false) doubts about his faith — including rumors that he is a Muslim (which he is not).

"I have a job to do as president, and that does not involve convincing folks that my faith in Jesus is legitimate and real. I do my best to live out my faith, and to stay in the Word, and to make my life look more like His," Obama said "What I can do is just keep on following Him, and serve others—trying to make folks’ lives a little better using this humbling position that I hold."



Obama also nodded to religious pluralism in the U.S. — and the idea that there are people of many faiths in the country.

"This country has a rich tradition of seeking to create an environment where people of different beliefs can live together and share common goals. As Americans, I think we understand that—in protecting our ability to advocate for our own positions—we must protect the ability of those who come from different backgrounds and beliefs to do so as well. Faith demands that we see the image of God in one another and respect it," Obama said.

“Faith can express itself in people in many ways, and I think it is important that we not make faith alone a barometer of a person’s worth, value, or character,” Obama said.


Obama talks Faith

And all this time folks were saying that a President's faith or beliefs did not influence his policy making.

 

[InTheLight]

And all this time folks were saying that a President's faith or beliefs did not influence his policy making.

Adding that to my list of your false premises. Designated #11.

 

[Zaac]

Adding that to my list of your false premises. Designated #11.

Hello again false premise troll.:wavey:

 

[InTheLight]

Hello again false premise troll.:wavey:

Once again you make a statement attributing to someone on BB. I'm calling you on it again. Post a link showing where people on Baptist Board said that the President's faith does not influence policy decisions. Go on.

 

[InTheLight]

And all this time folks were saying that a President's faith or beliefs did not influence his policy making.

From Baptist Board's rules:

5. No trolling. Trolling consists of provoking large volumes of responses by posting absurdities..

 

[Zaac]

Once again you make a statement attributing to someone on BB. I'm calling you on it again. Post a link showing where people on Baptist Board said that the President's faith does not influence policy decisions. Go on.

And once again false premise troll, go away and leave the responding to the folks who are dealing with the article.:wavey:

 

[Bro. Curtis]

"dealing with the article"...

LOL

I dealt with it by deciding it was garbage, with a little dishonesty thrown in.

 

[targus]

And all this time folks were saying that a President's faith or beliefs did not influence his policy making.

What people have been saying that "a President's faith or beliefs did not influence his policy making."

Can you provide an example of someone saying that or something similar?

At this point I do not believe that your premise is true - and if it is not true what would be the basis for such a discussion?

 

[InTheLight]

And once again false premise troll, go away and leave the responding to the folks who are dealing with the article.:wavey:

OK, using the article please point out which policy stances have been influenced by Obama's faith?

He does say it provides a framework and a vocabulary to come to the realization that there are problems. But show me where he says his faith influence which policy stance he takes?

 

[InTheLight]

What people have been saying that "a President's faith or beliefs did not influence his policy making."

Can you provide an example of someone saying that or something similar?

At this point I do not believe that your premise is true -

Get ready to be labeled a false premise troll.

and if it is not true what would be the basis for such a discussion?

Instigate a large number of responses by posting absurdities would be my guess.

 

[Zaac]

What people have been saying that "a President's faith or beliefs did not influence his policy making."

Can you provide an example of someone saying that or something similar?

You hear it in the media all the time when folks speak of separation of church and state. This is not the first time Obama has given this type of interview. If I recall correctly, he flat came out and said that his faith influences his policy decisions. Yet none of the separation of church and state crowd seemed to take issue with that.

At this point I do not believe that your premise is true - and if it is not true what would be the basis for such a discussion?

And what do you believe the premise to be?

 

[Zaac]

American Atheists Billboards Go After Presidential Candidates’ Faith
August 13, 2012

American Atheists just put up two new billboards that go after President Obama‘s Christianity and Mitt Romney‘s Mormonism (though they never mention the candidates by name):


The billboards will be located in Charlotte, NC, where the Democratic National Convention will be held, September 3 – 6, 2012. All companies contacted in Tampa, Florida, where the Republican National Convention will be held, refused to display the billboard focusing on Mormonism.

Mr. Silverman said, “The election of our leaders in the United States is one of the most important decisions that we as citizens make. Allowing our judgment to be clouded by sheer silliness is unacceptable. We want to show the people of our country the foolishness of mixing religion with politics.”

Teresa MacBain, Public Relations Director stated, “Our great country was founded on the secular ideals of the Constitution. Allowing religion to be the litmus test of our candidates undermines the very core of our freedoms.” Ms. MacBain continued, “Article VI of the Constitution states, ‘no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification’ for those desiring public office. How can we disregard our governing principles so blatantly?”

American Atheists Billboards

 

[InTheLight]

And rather than shy away from Mr. Romney’s faith, as some campaign aides have argued he should, they have decided to embrace it. On the night Mr. Romney will address the convention, a member of the Mormon Church will deliver the invocation. On Sunday, this new approach was apparent as Mr. Romney invited reporters to join him at church services.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/20/u...-project-relaxed-image.html?_r=2&ref=politics

 

[Don]

So where on Baptist Board did someone state that the president's policies were influenced by his religious beliefs?

It's nice that the atheists make such statements; but then, we all know how they feel about us "mindless sheeple" anyway.

 

[targus]

You hear it in the media all the time when folks speak of separation of church and state.

That is simply a restatement of your original unsupported assertion.

Can you provide an example of where anyone in the media has said that "a President's faith or beliefs did not influence his policy making."

 

[Zaac]

That is simply a restatement of your original unsupported assertion.

Can you provide an example of where anyone in the media has said that "a President's faith or beliefs did not influence his policy making."

That's not what I said. People in the media, atheists, and secularists have said that a President's faith should not influence his policy making.

The folks on here have said faith doesn't matter because we're electing a President and not a Pastor.

And stop being lazy.:laugh: Y'all act like every detail of every conversation has to be laid out for you. You know how to search the internet and see how many times folks have said that faith doesn't matter or that faith should not influence a President's policy making.

Goodness folks on this board have either said or alluded to it enough times that the President's faith doesn't matter because we're electing a commander in chief and not a pastor in chief.

Some of y'all just looking for excuses.

As the field of candidates narrows and the election creeps ever closer, the Republican presidential debates are becoming not just more spirited, but more spiritual.

Faith, family and fidelity are becoming themes, and the media has taken notice.

"That's why Newt Gingrich points to his religious conversion when asked about cheating on his wife. It's why Mitt Romney highlights his 43-year marriage, and Rick Santorum is photographed with his seven smiling children," noted Meredith Heagney of the Columbus Dispatch. "Even long-shot candidate Ron Paul has released a 'statement of faith' saying that Jesus is his savior."

Romney is Mormon, while Gingrich and Santorum are both Catholic (Gingrich converted from Protestantism). Paul is an evangelical Christian.

The Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life conducted a poll in January that said Republican and GOP-leaning voters are tipping toward Romney, with few differences among religious groups.

NPR did a live blog during the debate Thursday night, including a section on how religion would influence each candidate. It quoted Paul as saying his religious beliefs "affect my character and the way I treat people and how I live."

Romney said he "would also seek the guidance of Providence in making decisions."Gingrich claimed his very candidacy was driven in part by what he perceives as a "war against religion," especially Christianity, in the media. Presidents, he noted, "should go to God; they should seek guidance."

And the blog noted that Santorum called America the only nation with founding documents that include "God-given rights," adding that "faith has everything to do" with the decisions a president would make.

Religion has long been an issue in presidential elections and strong support from religious groups can make or break a candidate. Former Pres. Jimmy Carter's acknowledgement that he was "born again" helped him woo evangelical Christians in his bid for election in 1976. "Since then, evangelical Christian voters have been a major political consideration for Republicans and Democrats alike, says Kane Farabaugh of VOAnews.com.

"The tendency of candidates to emphasize their faith on the campaign trail is something former President Carter says is over-emphasized as the race for the Republican Party presidential nomination swings through conservative and religious southern states," she wrote.

Carter told her that he's less concerned about a candidate's specific faith than the "basic moral character, the basic principles put forward by the potential president."

LifeWay Research, a Christian research organization, polled on the topic in September. It found just over 16 percent of Americans said they are more likely to vote for a candidate who regularly shares religious beliefs. Another 30 percent said they'd be less likely to vote for a candidate expressing religious activity. And 28 percent said the don't care. The other 22 percent said it depends on the religion.

The survey noted that Americans 18-29 and 30-49 are more apt to select "depends on the religion." Those 65 and older are most likely to say a candidate's expression on religion wouldn't impact their choice.

Role of Personal Faith in the Presidency

 

[Zaac]

And if a President's faith means so little, why do they all stomp about their "Christianity"? Why all the visits to church with the cameras as election day nears?

 

[InTheLight]

Originally Posted by targus
That is simply a restatement of your original unsupported assertion.
Can you provide an example of where anyone in the media has said that "a President's faith or beliefs did not influence his policy making."

That's not what I said.

Huh?

From your original post:

And all this time folks were saying that a President's faith or beliefs did not influence his policy making.

I'm beginning to think you have reading comprehension problems.

 

[Zaac]

So where on Baptist Board did someone state that the president's policies were influenced by his religious beliefs?

It's nice that the atheists make such statements; but then, we all know how they feel about us "mindless sheeple" anyway.

Folks on Baptist Board, just like a lot of atheists, etc, have stated that a President's faith should not affect his policy decisions.

Barack Obama stated in February that his faith affects those decisions.

It seems like folks on here might just be scared that people are gonna start thinking that Romney's Mormon faith will affect his decision making and they don't want to go down that path.

Which is why I asked the question. If we're just electing a commander in chief and not a"pastor in chief" as so many have eloquently said...if we really are supposed to have separation of church and state as so many liberals are always spouting, then why has no one said anything about Obama's faith influencing his politics?

 

[Zaac]

Huh?

From your original post:



I'm beginning to think you have reading comprehension problems.

I'm beginning to know that you are a troll.:wavey: