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Separation of School and State
- Thread starter Dragoon68
- Start date
Nope.Originally posted by King James:
Actually...the whole nation is entitled to the wealth of others. It's called taxes. Most law abiding citizens I believe, WOULD teach their children to provide for themselves, pay their taxes, etc.
They are not entitled. It is legitimate for government to tax the economy in order to ensure law enforcement, protection of rights, national defense, etc.
It doesn't entitle someone who is too lazy or immoral to work for themselves to food stamps or free housing.
O
OCC
Guest
Nope.Originally posted by Scott J:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by King James:
Actually...the whole nation is entitled to the wealth of others. It's called taxes. Most law abiding citizens I believe, WOULD teach their children to provide for themselves, pay their taxes, etc.
They are not entitled. It is legitimate for government to tax the economy in order to ensure law enforcement, protection of rights, national defense, etc.
It doesn't entitle someone who is too lazy or immoral to work for themselves to food stamps or free housing. </font>[/QUOTE]That is the context I was talking about with taxes. Therefore, they can take it.
As for the "someone who is too lazy or immoral" comment...that doesn't even deserve a response....
Reading some of the early public school charters answers this question. Some specifically cited universal ability to read the Bible as a reason.Originally posted by Dragoon68:
Just how did schools become part of the state? Why have we let local schools become an arm of our goverments at the city or district, state, and even federal level? Wouldn't we be better off is all schools were private schools in no way funded or operated by any branch of government?
As with the Great Society, liberals saw something that was good but imperfect and decided that government involvement would complete the picture. And just as the Great Society has made many of the problems it set out to solve worse, the public school system cannot be proven to be a better option than what we would have had if all schools had remained private... which practically all were when de Toqueville toured America in the 1830's and was amazed by the level of literacy.
I think it was Jefferson that rightly feared that an education system controlled by politicians would seek to indoctrinate children and society into bondage.
The fact that few if any here knew that separation of state and school would have virtually synonomous with separtion of state and church is indication that the paradigm has been shifted.
O
OCC
Guest
Some people are so scared of the government...and people like myself and others on here are labelled "conspiracy theorists"?
That is up to you. Of course the NT tells us that if a man won't work he shouldn't eat. The Bible calls slothfulness, fornication, non-sobriety, violence, unfaithfulness, poor stewardship, and the like SIN. You apparently want the government in the name of "Christian values" to subsidize such behavior.Originally posted by King James:
As for the "someone who is too lazy or immoral" comment...that doesn't even deserve a response....
O
OCC
Guest
And you apparently don't have a heart for the poor and disabled.
What about those people? What about the people who can't get a job because they have no skills and it costs thousands of dollars to go anywhere to get any skills, and not be assured of a job when they get those skills? What about those people? Jesus cares for them. Apparently, you don't. BTW...that would be SIN as well!
What about those people? What about the people who can't get a job because they have no skills and it costs thousands of dollars to go anywhere to get any skills, and not be assured of a job when they get those skills? What about those people? Jesus cares for them. Apparently, you don't. BTW...that would be SIN as well!
I have, in times past, sat in various school meetings. Parents often try to make some points to a bunch of administrators that just "know better" or tell them how it has to be because the "state" or "federal" government requires it. I've also had some one-on-one meetings with some of the administrators. I haven't been to a school board meeting in a long time. The word I get from others in my family is that the process is now more heavily influenced by government lawyers who get in the way of common sense discussion and decisions. I'm sure there are many "community minded" people in the business of public education. Several close relatives immediately come to mind! However, I think they'd do a whole lot better if the schools were privately controlled rather than government controlled.Originally posted by Johnv:
I suggest you sit in on a local school board meeting or two. You'll find that those folks are typically grass-roots dedicated community-minded people. They don't always get the glry they deserve.
Taxation is not a concept of being "entitled to the wealth of others". Taxation is a concept of each person paying a share of assessment for the support of government.Originally posted by King James:
Actually...the whole nation is entitled to the wealth of others. It's called taxes.
We don't! We express our ideas about things we believe should be changed for the better.Originally posted by King James:
Why must we complain about everything? *sigh*
Originally posted by Johnv:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Dragoon68:
Private agencies could establish and accredit secondary schools just like they do higher educational institutions.
I agree, and that's typically what happens. ACSI and WASC are the two accrediting agencies that local schools most often use for accreditation. BTW, private schools can also use the same accreditors that the secular schools (public and private) use, such as WASC. </font>[/QUOTE]That's a very good point! However, as I understand it, local school districts must still meet certain state and federal requirements to obtain funding. The government controls the curricula and decides what can and what can not be taught.
O
OCC
Guest
Dragoon...having a little fun, was I. But it's true...there are some who complain repeatedly about the government and having guns to protect self against them and I wonder...why all the conspiracy theories?
Johnv: "Taxation is not a concept of being "entitled to the wealth of others". Taxation is a concept of each person paying a share of assessment for the support of government." That is exactly what I meant.
Johnv: "Taxation is not a concept of being "entitled to the wealth of others". Taxation is a concept of each person paying a share of assessment for the support of government." That is exactly what I meant.
We don't! We express our ideas about things we believe should be changed for the better. </font>[/QUOTE]I'm reminded of a joke:Originally posted by Dragoon68:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by King James:
Why must we complain about everything? *sigh*
Husband: Honey, why must you always neg?
Wife: I don't nag, I just give helpful suggestions.
Originally posted by Scott J:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Johnv:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Dragoon68:
Is greater learning ability of a child related to having affluent parents? Are "rich kids" smarter than "poor kids"?
Smarter, no. Do they tend to be better educated? Yes.</font>[/QUOTE]The most important factor is certain moral values or ethics.
Those who see themselves as legitimately entitled to the wealth of others will not emphasize that their children prepare to provide for themselves. </font>[/QUOTE]Exactly! Some people truly believe they're "entitled" to the wealth of others so long as that wealth is greater but not lessor than their own.
Originally posted by Scott J:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Johnv:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Dragoon68:
Private agencies could establish and accredit secondary schools just like they do higher educational institutions.
I agree, and that's typically what happens. </font>[/QUOTE]In a free society, parents and individuals are responsible for education. Those who chose poorly will be an immediate deterent to others. Those who choose well will be emulated. </font>[/QUOTE]Now you're getting to real heart of the matter. Parents - not the government - are responsible for teaching their young children. When parents don't have tight control or choices over the source of their children's education their authority has been usurped by others. That's exactly what government schools do and it's not limited to the simple issue of evolution verses creation but includes the full range of beliefs. Government schools are increasing their sphere of influence over the beliefs of their students many of which are in direct conflict with those of the parents.
Reading some of the early public school charters answers this question. Some specifically cited universal ability to read the Bible as a reason.Originally posted by Scott J:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Dragoon68:
Just how did schools become part of the state? Why have we let local schools become an arm of our goverments at the city or district, state, and even federal level? Wouldn't we be better off is all schools were private schools in no way funded or operated by any branch of government?
As with the Great Society, liberals saw something that was good but imperfect and decided that government involvement would complete the picture. And just as the Great Society has made many of the problems it set out to solve worse, the public school system cannot be proven to be a better option than what we would have had if all schools had remained private... which practically all were when de Toqueville toured America in the 1830's and was amazed by the level of literacy.
I think it was Jefferson that rightly feared that an education system controlled by politicians would seek to indoctrinate children and society into bondage.
The fact that few if any here knew that separation of state and school would have virtually synonomous with separtion of state and church is indication that the paradigm has been shifted. </font>[/QUOTE]Excellent! The paradigm shift is, at least in part, the product of government schools. The danger now is that liberals view these schools as the perfect venue in which to impart and further their own viewpoints under the mandate of government authority. We will live to see more teaching of "beliefs" in our government schools.
Some people value their liberty, realize how it can be lost, and desire to guard against it. To be wary of the government is not to disrespect its validity but rather to keep it within its bounds.Originally posted by King James:
Some people are so scared of the government...and people like myself and others on here are labelled "conspiracy theorists"?
buckster75
Member
John did you respond to my post?
Are you kidding? I know several parents who send their kids to the most expensive schools because it's a status symbol. Sad but true, and it's more common than we want to admit. </font>[/QUOTE]Some people do everything for status so I'm sure it's possible sending their children to an "elite" school is yet another opportunity!Originally posted by Johnv:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Originally posted by Dragoon68:
Why else would people want to pay extra for it?
I don't have statistics to prove it, but I just have to believe that people typically send their children to private school because they want them to get an education of better quality than they can get from the public school. They visit the government school, take a look around, talk to others, and conclude they must do something better for their children.
Not everyone that makes this choice is necessarily rich either! Some people struggle to make it happen because they consider it that important.
Others home school their children for the same reasons and because they want to be sure their children are taught the beliefs they hold.
Originally posted by Dragoon68:
... I just have to believe that people typically send their children to private school because they want them to get an education of better quality than they can get from the public school.
I am one of those parents. Money was tighter when I was younger, so my children were in public school until 4th grade, and then I put them in a local Christian school until 8th grade. They then went to public high school (private high schools were too cost prohibitive). I might add that it was an RCA school, not a Baptist school, because the RCA school had a better quality of education overall.
Of course, now I'm dealing with college tuition. And to think I was actually complaining about money in gradeschool. Eeeeek!!!!