Serving In the Military--Wrong?

Yes, and God said to honor his image by using capital punishment on those who stamp it out.

I agree. Fortunately, that is irrelevant here to my position, since I am not espousing anything contrary ot the teachings of Christ.

I think we should show perfect patience, mercy, compassion, and love. That does not mean we don't use the death penalty.

You are creating false dichotomies and encouraging the rejection of Scripture where Christ commands us to use capital punishment to honor the image of God in man.

 

Does "perfect patience" mean the absence of justice?

God has "perfect patience," yet He is a God of justice as well.

I'm also still waiting for a response to this:

 

Genesis 9:6

Part of the problem is that you are confusing individual responsibilities (mercy, no vengeance, etc.) with governmental responsibilities (bearing the sword). Second, you assume that God contradicts himself ... that he commands us to practice the death penalty and perfect patience, which cannot be done together. I disagree for the simple reason that God commands both things, and therefore they are not contradictory.

 

Jesus Christ did not command his followers to meet out justice on earth. That is left to Almighty God who well certainly judge every person.

The issue of self-defense is another subject. Please feel free to start another thread on that topic.

peace to youraying:

 

I'm sorry...but self-defense is the issue. It is tied to military service.

I suspect that you don't wish to answer my post about self-defense because you don't have a good answer.

We all know about Jesus and turning the other cheek. Now, since it is relevant to this topic, answer this:

Is defense of self and/or loved ones always wrong, in your opinion? If someone broke into your home, would you be justified in defending your family and property? Even if it meant killing the perpetrator?

Ultimately, that should be the military's goal--the defense of one's homeland and ultimately one's loved ones. How do you feel about self (or loved ones') defense?

 

The issue of self-defense is another subject. Please feel free to start another thread on that topic.

peace to youraying:

 

Hold on, though.

Many, many people (most of our grandfathers!) joined the military because we were attacked. They were joining the military in self-defense. It happened by the thousands after 9-11. Our families and loved ones were attacked (for some in an extended sense; for others, it was truly personal).

I couldn't disagree with you more about this. You cannot separate military service from the idea of self-defense.

Your unwillingness to address that concept smells like a dodge to me.

I'd love to hear some of you military men weigh in on this. Am I off base?

If you refuse this a third time, then it will be obvious to me that you are dodging this issue and I'll let it go.

But I'll ask one last time: Is defense of self and/or loved ones always wrong, in your opinion? If someone broke into your home, would you be justified in defending your family and property? Even if it meant killing the perpetrator? Ultimately, that should be the military's goal--the defense of one's homeland and ultimately one's loved ones. How do you feel about self (or loved ones') defense?

Why the reluctance to answer that question?

Like I say...should you decline again to answer, I'll move on and let things be.

RBell

 

Self defense and the defense of others is at the heart of the military.

Killing is not a sin..
Murder is.

Killing in self defense and in defense of others is not a sin.
Look at the law beyond the 20th chapter of Exodus.

Moses made provisions for self defense.

The military defends a country, and the citizens of the country, so therefore, it is not a sin.

 

What would Jesus do?

 

Wasn't one of his disciples a Zealot?

 

Canadyjd

There are many biblical actions and institutions that are not specifically called out in the New Testament that have their foundation in the Old Testament and human government is one of those. For instance the foundation of our government is based on Isaiah 33:22, “For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; he will save us.”

Marriage is instituted in Adam and Eve, human government is established in Saul and David, life for life is the command of God to man in Genesis 9:6, military service was instituted by God, cities of refuge (our prisons) were established for those who committed manslaughter or accidental killings and murder was punishable by death.

The thief on the cross readily admitted that he and the other malefactor deserved their sentence of death. (Luke 23:41) “And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.” I am sure your arguments come from a well intended heart non-the-less they are foolishness. If sin reigns supreme in the unsaved and we do not put boundaries in place that require the maximum penalty then our laws will have no impact.

There can be no war without death. Would you suggest that a believer simply refrain from defending himself or his country? What is the greater sin disobeying God by disobeying our government when our faith is not in question or reading something into scripture which is not clearly there? Pacifism is against scripture, we are to do nothing passively everything we do is to be done with all our might, David fought with all his might, his men were noted as David’s mighty men, he danced mightily before the Lord. Who would think that we as Americans should go into combat and not fight with all our might?

Would you suggest that we allow the temple of God to be destroyed with out trying to protect it?

I don’t believe that we should ever murder, murder denotes that a person was innocent of wrong doing, and they were killed not for wrong but for some other reason. Combat is not murder, though as we have seen there is a lawless element even in war.

When a man or a woman picks up a weapon with the intent to use it I am not going to wait for them to pull the trigger, aim or make a downward sweep of their arm. I will with every intent seek to do them great damage before hand and perchance it will not kill them but that is the least of my worries, my life is valuable to my family and my family is my responsibility and by God’s grace in a war or fight I will return to them even if it is over the body of my enemy.

I would tell you that if broke into my home and I did not know you or your intent I would seek to neutralize you and I would use what ever I could get my hands on to do it your life would be of little consequence to me. My home is my battle front and my war zone and I will protect it with all that is in me.

I suspect this will have no impact but I feel better posting it.:smilewinkgrin:

thjplgvp

 

We don't know and nieither do you since he wasn't in the military. If my kingdom were of this world then would my servants fight. His kingdom was not of this world but our physical kingdom is and it is called America.

 

I agree with you. Your un-biblical assertions have no impact on my biblically founded beliefs.:smilewinkgrin:

peace to youraying:

 

Gen 9 makes human government (man) responsible to enact the death penalty in order to honor and protect human life. Therefore, it is every man's responsibility to support the death penalty or be in rebelliion against God. You don't get to pick and choose which of God's standards you support and which you don't.

I never said it was the individuals' responsibility to carry it out. That would be murder. It is the government's responsibility to carry it out. It is the individual's responsibility to live in obedience to God.

Gen 9:6 says you are wrong.

I have yet to find one. And you have shown none here.

 

Canadyjd, your silence is deafening.

I bow out...it is now obvious you have no answer to the self-defense issue.

Good day.:wavey:

 

Uh..... no

 

Start the thread, and we'll see.

peace to youraying: