Since when are the Plymouth Brethren (at least in the States) a cult?
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Seven Churches - Why all the Ado?
- Thread starter rockytopva
- Start date
William Branham? I don’t like the guy!
Seven Day Adventist? I go to church on Sundays!
Plymouth Brethren? Who are they?
The man I would pattern myself most like would be the old Philadelphian church age circuit rider, Robert Sheffey! And to describe the guy....
Camp Meeting in Virginia around the old, Methodist Episcopal Church South mourners bench! Dear to me is this chapter of the book because I experienced so much of the wonderful things the author talks about in this work! :clap:The Life of George Clark Rankin and beginning on page 239...
I passed my examinations and that year I was sent to the Wytheville Station and Circuit. That was adjoining my former charge. We reached the old parsonage on the pike just out of Wytheville as Rev. B. W. S. Bishop moved out. Charley Bishop was then a little tow-headed boy. He is now the learned Regent of Southwestern University. The parsonage was an old two-and-a-half-story structure with nine rooms and it looked a little like Hawthorne's house with the seven gables. It was the lonesomest-looking old house I ever saw. There was no one there to meet us, for we had not notified anybody of the time we would arrive.
Think of taking a young bride to that sort of a mansion! But she was brave and showed no sign of disappointment. That first night we felt like two whortleberries in a Virginia tobacco wagonbed. We had room and to spare, but it was scantily furnished with specimens as antique as those in Noah's ark. But in a week or so we were invited out to spend the day with a good family, and when we went back we found the doors fastened just as we had left them, but when we entered a bedroom was elegantly furnished with everything modern and the parlor was in fine shape. The ladies had been there and done the work. How much does the preacher owe to the good women of the Church!
The circuit was a large one, comprising seventeen appointments. They were practically scattered all over the county. I preached every other day, and never less than twice and generally three times on Sunday.
I had associated with me that year a young collegemate, Rev. W. B. Stradley. He was a bright, popular fellow, and we managed to give Wytheville regular Sunday preaching. Stradley became a great preacher and died a few years ago while pastor of Trinity Church, Atlanta, Georgia. We were true yokefellows and did a great work on that charge, held fine revivals and had large ingatherings.
The famous Cripple Creek Campground was on that work. They have kept up campmeetings there for more than a hundred years. It is still the great rallying point for the Methodists of all that section. I have never heard such singing and preaching and shouting anywhere else in my life. I met the Rev. John Boring there and heard him preach. He was a well-known preacher in the conference; original, peculiar, strikingly odd, but a great revival preacher.
One morning in the beginning of the service he was to preach and he called the people to prayer. He prayed loud and long and told the Lord just what sort of a meeting we were expecting and really exhorted the people as to their conduct on the grounds. Among other things, he said we wanted no horse- trading and then related that just before kneeling he had seen a man just outside the encampment looking into the mouth of a horse and he made such a peculiar sound as he described the incident that I lifted up my head to look at him, and he was holding his mouth open with his hands just as the man had done in looking into the horse's mouth! But he was a man of power and wrought well for the Church and for humanity.
The rarest character I ever met in my life I met at that campmeeting in the person of Rev. Robert Sheffy, known as "Bob" Sheffy. He was recognized all over Southwest Virginia as the most eccentric preacher of that country. He was a local preacher; crude, illiterate, queer and the oddest specimen known among preachers. But he was saintly in his life, devout in his experience and a man of unbounded faith. He wandered hither and thither over that section attending meetings, holding revivals and living among the people. He was great in prayer, and Cripple Creek campground was not complete without "Bob" Sheffy. They wanted him there to pray and work in the altar.
He was wonderful with penitents. And he was great in following up the sermon with his exhortations and appeals. He would sometimes spend nearly the whole night in the straw with mourners; and now and then if the meeting lagged he would go out on the mountain and spend the entire night in prayer, and the next morning he would come rushing into the service with his face all aglow shouting at the top of his voice. And then the meeting always broke loose with a floodtide.
He could say the oddest things, hold the most unique interviews with God, break forth in the most unexpected spasms of praise, use the homeliest illustrations, do the funniest things and go through with the most grotesque performances of any man born of woman.
It was just "Bob" Sheffy, and nobody thought anything of what he did and said, except to let him have his own way and do exactly as he pleased. In anybody else it would not have been tolerated for a moment. In fact, he acted more like a crazy man than otherwise, but he was wonderful in a meeting. He would stir the people, crowd the mourner's bench with crying penitents and have genuine conversions by the score. I doubt if any man in all that conference has as many souls to his credit in the Lamb's Book of Life as old "Bob" Sheffy.
At the close of that year in casting up my accounts I found that I had received three hundred and ninety dollars for my year's work, and the most of this had been contributed in everything except money. It required about the amount of cash contributed to pay my associate and the Presiding Elder. I got the chickens, the eggs, the butter, the ribs and backbones, the corn, the meat, and the Presiding Elder and Brother Stradley had helped us to eat our part of the quarterage. Well, we kept open house and had a royal time, even if we did not get much ready cash. We lived and had money enough to get a good suit of clothes and to pay our way to conference. What more does a young Methodist preacher need or want? We were satisfied and happy, and these experiences are not to be counted as unimportant assets in the life and work of a Methodist circuit rider. - The Life of George Clark Rankin
I would align myself most with the Virginian Methodist circuit riders
I have heard that John Wesley said, "When a man dies he should leave enough to bury him and a few pence for his friends." This is the way Philadelphian Robert Sayers Sheffey would go... Only problem with the Robert Sheffey story is that they won't have enough to bury him and no pence for his friends! He did leave behind his saddle bags and sheepskin. I would imagine you could not give that gentlemen 9from Bluefield WV I believe( enough money for them! - Robert Sayers Sheffey, Mountain Preacher and Man of Prayer
This was a time when the Philadelphian church age was in its glory and the Wesleyan Methods in practice....
1. Salvation - Accepting Christ in the heart
2. Sanctification - A Sweet Spirit
3. The Witness of the Spirit - Entering in the eye of the needle.
The Old Methodist had two altars, one for salvation and the other for sanctification. To become sanctified was to have a sweet spirit. And they would stay with people in what was known as the 'after service' until they would receive it. Sheffey died in 1902, just a few years before the fires of Pentecost would fall in the Azusa Street mission. I propose to do this book as it reflects the beauty of the Philadelphian church age, and the beauties of what John Wesley intended for the Methodist church.
Robert Sheffey
Born July 4, 1820
Died August 30, 1902
"The poor were sorry when he died"
I have heard that John Wesley said, "When a man dies he should leave enough to bury him and a few pence for his friends." This is the way Philadelphian Robert Sayers Sheffey would go... Only problem with the Robert Sheffey story is that they won't have enough to bury him and no pence for his friends! He did leave behind his saddle bags and sheepskin. I would imagine you could not give that gentlemen 9from Bluefield WV I believe( enough money for them! - Robert Sayers Sheffey, Mountain Preacher and Man of Prayer
This was a time when the Philadelphian church age was in its glory and the Wesleyan Methods in practice....
1. Salvation - Accepting Christ in the heart
2. Sanctification - A Sweet Spirit
3. The Witness of the Spirit - Entering in the eye of the needle.
The Old Methodist had two altars, one for salvation and the other for sanctification. To become sanctified was to have a sweet spirit. And they would stay with people in what was known as the 'after service' until they would receive it. Sheffey died in 1902, just a few years before the fires of Pentecost would fall in the Azusa Street mission. I propose to do this book as it reflects the beauty of the Philadelphian church age, and the beauties of what John Wesley intended for the Methodist church.
Robert Sheffey
Born July 4, 1820
Died August 30, 1902
"The poor were sorry when he died"
A Sardis is a gem, hard and beautiful. The old Philadelphian revival gave away. But the Baptist church, founded in Sardisean times, continues! The Baptist, then, are more steadfast than the Methodist.
I believe once the book is shut, after the last conversation to Christianity, and sealed with the last seal, it will be time to put the first four chapters of Revelation behind us! Which makes this important study!
Candlesticks - Seven church congregations - From Messianic to Charismatic
Stars - Individuals within the congregations, all held in the right hand of Christ
Seals - The seven seals sealed each congregation within the lambs book of life
And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. - Revelation 5:4
Candlesticks - Seven church congregations - From Messianic to Charismatic
Stars - Individuals within the congregations, all held in the right hand of Christ
Seals - The seven seals sealed each congregation within the lambs book of life
And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. - Revelation 5:4
Bob Jones University did a movie on Robert Sheffey!
There was once an uneducated old drunk named Rod Moxley who lived a wild life... And he gets saved! Rod volunteered to build a bus ministry at a Baptist church.
One day while riding my motorcycle on a Sunday morning I run into a bus. The bus doors open to the face of Rod Moxley who tells me that I need to be in church! That went on for a few weeks, and when I told my mother, that was where I would end up the next Sunday morning, at a place called the Fellowship Baptist Church.
While Rod Moxley was alive the church grew to the point it was packed out. We would have revivals and many would get saved. Our whole family ended up getting saved at this church and Rod Moxley would come over to our house and explain the plan of salvation to my parents, who would get saved as well. When Rod Moxley passed away the church began to go downhill, the church blames the good pastor and ends up getting a well educated pastor with advanced degrees. This church is now doing so poorly that nobody keeps up the web site.
The cure-all these days seems to be in the education. Many have their religion from the neck up, but there is no spiritual fire on the inside, except maybe the fire of the flesh. The word on good ground will make for a good heart as well as a sound mind. And even though there is no formal education, there is much profit from such an individual. In the old Methodist days they would call these folks Exhorters, and sometimes circuit riders.
Baptist Rod Moxley as well as Methodist RS Sheffey,... Good examples of the word on good ground! And of the Philadelphian church age! Who had their religion from the neck down as well as the neck up!
One day while riding my motorcycle on a Sunday morning I run into a bus. The bus doors open to the face of Rod Moxley who tells me that I need to be in church! That went on for a few weeks, and when I told my mother, that was where I would end up the next Sunday morning, at a place called the Fellowship Baptist Church.
While Rod Moxley was alive the church grew to the point it was packed out. We would have revivals and many would get saved. Our whole family ended up getting saved at this church and Rod Moxley would come over to our house and explain the plan of salvation to my parents, who would get saved as well. When Rod Moxley passed away the church began to go downhill, the church blames the good pastor and ends up getting a well educated pastor with advanced degrees. This church is now doing so poorly that nobody keeps up the web site.
The cure-all these days seems to be in the education. Many have their religion from the neck up, but there is no spiritual fire on the inside, except maybe the fire of the flesh. The word on good ground will make for a good heart as well as a sound mind. And even though there is no formal education, there is much profit from such an individual. In the old Methodist days they would call these folks Exhorters, and sometimes circuit riders.
Baptist Rod Moxley as well as Methodist RS Sheffey,... Good examples of the word on good ground! And of the Philadelphian church age! Who had their religion from the neck down as well as the neck up!
A Southern Baptist teaching the church ages.... Wonderful! Thanks for sharing! This is the kind of teaching I was brought up with!
“Each one of the churches of Asia represents a time period in the church dispensation, this dispensation of grace: the first one, Ephesus; the second one, Smyrna: the third one, Pergamos; the fourth one, Thyatira; the fifth one, Sardis; the sixth one, Philadelphia; and the last one, Laodicea. And at the end of that time period, at the end of the church age, the church is taken up; it is “raptured.” God’s people are in heaven and now on the earth is tribulation.‘ - https://wacriswell.com/sermons/1980/the-seven-mighty-miracles-at-the-end-of-the-world1/
No such thing as a "Philadelphian church age".
Would you argue that with the beloved and reputable Baptist preacher, Dr. WA Criswell, who lived to be 92, was senior pastor of the First Baptist Church of Dallas for five decades, in the late 1970s led the "Conservative Resurgence" within the Southern Baptist Convention, founded a bible college, and served two terms as president of the Southern Baptist Convention? Would you?
“Each one of the churches of Asia represents a time period in the church dispensation, this dispensation of grace: the first one, Ephesus; the second one, Smyrna: the third one, Pergamos; the fourth one, Thyatira; the fifth one, Sardis; the sixth one, Philadelphia; and the last one, Laodicea. And at the end of that time period, at the end of the church age, the church is taken up; it is “raptured.” God’s people are in heaven and now on the earth is tribulation.‘ - The Seven Mighty Miracles at the End of the World - Dr. WA Criswell
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Perhaps I made too "blanket" a statement. However,several branches of them are clearly cults, being ridden with many man-made rules. This is particularly true of a gang once headed by a James Taylor Jr., who was busted several times for public intox, & caught "red-handed" in bed with another man's wife in the middle of the day, so they weren't exactly "sleeping". maybe some branches aren't cults or sects, but I simply avoid them all.
I don't care if he was Baptist, Methodist, or Hare Krishna - he was teaching a FALSE DOCTRINE.
Am I supposed to believe you over Dr WA Criswell? I don't think so! Especially as I have read nothing valuable in your postings!
You're free to believe whatcha want; you have the right to be wrong. But I don't hafta answer to God for YOUR beliefs unless I've putposely taught you a lie, which I haven't done.
But I believe SCRIPTURE & ACTUAL CHURCH HISTORY over any people. And there's not one quark of SCRIPTURE about any "church ages", and none of the "models for "church ages" fit HISTORY. So that doctrine is man-made & false.
As for your question in the title of this thread, "Why al the ado about seven church ages? BECAUSE IT'S A FALSE DOCTRINE.!
And what did Jesus have Paul write about false coctrines?
2 Tim. 4:3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions,
And that's exactly what YOU did!
You searched for a Baptist who believed the same garbage YOU do, as you know I am Baptist, til you came across Criswell. Well, he is equally as wrong as YOU are about that garbage, so if you wanna believe MEN over SCRIPTURE & CHURCH HISTORY, go right on! Again, I don't hafta answer to God for YOUR false belief.
And what did Jesus have Paul write about false coctrines?
2 Tim. 4:3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions,
And that's exactly what YOU did!
You searched for a Baptist who believed the same garbage YOU do, as you know I am Baptist, til you came across Criswell. Well, he is equally as wrong as YOU are about that garbage, so if you wanna believe MEN over SCRIPTURE & CHURCH HISTORY, go right on! Again, I don't hafta answer to God for YOUR false belief.
You fail to make a good argument. And why should I believe you? Because you say so? I don’t think so! You may be speaking only out of pure flesh and ego for all I know.
I would rather side with the beloved and reputable Baptist preacher, Dr. WA Criswell, who preached since he was 17, lived to be 92, got his Doctorates degree at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, was senior pastor of the First Baptist Church of Dallas for five decades, in the late 1970s led the "Conservative Resurgence" within the Southern Baptist Convention, founded a bible college, and served two terms as president of the Southern Baptist Convention! And your calling his teachings garbage? I am siding, with pure peace of heart, Dr WA Criswell. Your views may be out of pure ego, hateful, flesh, and due to a lack of good education for all I know! You simply do not make good argument and just stating “you are wrong” is not good enough.
“Each one of the churches of Asia represents a time period in the church dispensation, this dispensation of grace: the first one, Ephesus; the second one, Smyrna: the third one, Pergamos; the fourth one, Thyatira; the fifth one, Sardis; the sixth one, Philadelphia; and the last one, Laodicea. And at the end of that time period, at the end of the church age, the church is taken up; it is “raptured.” God’s people are in heaven and now on the earth is tribulation.‘ - The Seven Mighty Miracles at the End of the World - Dr. WA Criswell
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“This church at Laodicea represents, in this book of prophecy, the last period of church history. All seven of them depict periods, areas, ages, developments, in the story of the churches of Christ. The Ephesian period represents the apostolic church: the church of Christ and the apostles. The Smyrnan church represents the church of martyrdom, ground under the iron hand of the Roman government. The Pergamean church represents the church of the establishment, when Constantine married the church to the world. The Thyatiran church is the church of scarlet and silk and crimson and gold, representing the oracular infallibility of those who propose to speak for God. The Sardian church represents the church of the Dark Ages, in which night there are stars of the Reformation that shine. The Philadelphian church represents the church of missions and evangelization, the great outreach of the people of God as they preach the gospel to the world. And the Laodicean church represents the last church before Christ comes.” - Dr WA Criswell - The Laodicean Church
I don't care what Dr. Criswell - or YOU - said. There's not one quark of SCRIPTURE supporting any "7 church ages" theory, not does HISTORY support any model of that hooey.
Most-important is SCRIPTURE. You can't show us one bit of Scriptural support for any "7 church ages" nonsense.
Most-important is SCRIPTURE. You can't show us one bit of Scriptural support for any "7 church ages" nonsense.
I will favor Dr Criswell, thank you.
The wonderful eschatology of Dr. WA Criswell, who preached since he was 17, lived to be 92, got his Doctorates degree at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, was senior pastor of the First Baptist Church of Dallas for five decades, in the late 1970s led the "Conservative Resurgence" within the Southern Baptist Convention, founded a bible college, and served two terms as president of the Southern Baptist Convention. I love the guy! He states his view on the seven churches as such....
“Each one of the churches of Asia represents a time period in the church dispensation, this dispensation of grace: the first one, Ephesus; the second one, Smyrna: the third one, Pergamos; the fourth one, Thyatira; the fifth one, Sardis; the sixth one, Philadelphia; and the last one, Laodicea. And at the end of that time period, at the end of the church age, the church is taken up; it is “raptured.” God’s people are in heaven and now on the earth is tribulation.‘ - The Seven Mighty Miracles at the End of the World - Dr. WA Criswell
“This church at Laodicea represents, in this book of prophecy, the last period of church history. All seven of them depict periods, areas, ages, developments, in the story of the churches of Christ. The Ephesian period represents the apostolic church: the church of Christ and the apostles. The Smyrnan church represents the church of martyrdom, ground under the iron hand of the Roman government. The Pergamean church represents the church of the establishment, when Constantine married the church to the world. The Thyatiran church is the church of scarlet and silk and crimson and gold, representing the oracular infallibility of those who propose to speak for God. The Sardian church represents the church of the Dark Ages, in which night there are stars of the Reformation that shine. The Philadelphian church represents the church of missions and evangelization, the great outreach of the people of God as they preach the gospel to the world. And the Laodicean church represents the last church before Christ comes.” - Dr WA Criswell - The Laodicean Church
“Each one of the churches of Asia represents a time period in the church dispensation, this dispensation of grace: the first one, Ephesus; the second one, Smyrna: the third one, Pergamos; the fourth one, Thyatira; the fifth one, Sardis; the sixth one, Philadelphia; and the last one, Laodicea. And at the end of that time period, at the end of the church age, the church is taken up; it is “raptured.” God’s people are in heaven and now on the earth is tribulation.‘ - The Seven Mighty Miracles at the End of the World - Dr. WA Criswell
“This church at Laodicea represents, in this book of prophecy, the last period of church history. All seven of them depict periods, areas, ages, developments, in the story of the churches of Christ. The Ephesian period represents the apostolic church: the church of Christ and the apostles. The Smyrnan church represents the church of martyrdom, ground under the iron hand of the Roman government. The Pergamean church represents the church of the establishment, when Constantine married the church to the world. The Thyatiran church is the church of scarlet and silk and crimson and gold, representing the oracular infallibility of those who propose to speak for God. The Sardian church represents the church of the Dark Ages, in which night there are stars of the Reformation that shine. The Philadelphian church represents the church of missions and evangelization, the great outreach of the people of God as they preach the gospel to the world. And the Laodicean church represents the last church before Christ comes.” - Dr WA Criswell - The Laodicean Church