Seven year tribulation period

[Dayle]

I was taught many years ago that it is not wise to base a doctrine on one verse of Scripture.
Seems that each time I hear or read a teaching on the end times, 70th week of Daniel, or the tribulation period, Daniel 9:27 is quoted as proof that there is a seven year tribulation period coming.
The Anti-Christ will make a peace treaty with Israel for seven years that he will break after three and a half years at which time great tribulation comes.
Can anyone prove to me from Scripture that this is how the end times takes place without using Daniel 9:27.
IF this is the way things unfold, it seems to me that other Scripture would prove it to be true.

 

[Lodic]

You are absolutely right, Dayle. Basing a doctrine on just a verse or two is not wise. It is so easy to take passages out of context.

As we know, there is no 7-year tribulation period specified anywhere in the Bible. As one who does not believe in a 7-year tribulation, I suspect those who promote this view put a couple of the 3 1/2 year periods together. Someone recently explained that he believed it was a 3 1/2 year period from Daniel plus a 3 1/2 year period from Revelation.

 

[Dayle]

You are absolutely right, Dayle. Basing a doctrine on just a verse or two is not wise. It is so easy to take passages out of context.

As we know, there is no 7-year tribulation period specified anywhere in the Bible. As one who does not believe in a 7-year tribulation, I suspect those who promote this view put a couple of the 3 1/2 year periods together. Someone recently explained that he believed it was a 3 1/2 year period from Daniel plus a 3 1/2 year period from Revelation.

I do believe there is a time of tribulation coming.
Do not buy into the "it happened in 70 AD" .
Daniel speaks of 1290 days, 1260 days, and 1335 days and John speaks of 1260 days. All future events.
I do not believe that the pronoun HE used 3 times in Daniel 9:27 refers to the anti-Christ. The anti-Christ is not mentioned in the previous verses.
I believe HE refers back to the Messiah, the Prince.
A pronoun can only be properly used when it is identified in previous statements.

 

[Lodic]

I do believe there is a time of tribulation coming.
Do not buy into the "it happened in 70 AD" .
Daniel speaks of 1290 days, 1260 days, and 1335 days and John speaks of 1260 days. All future events.
I do not believe that the pronoun HE used 3 times in Daniel 9:27 refers to the anti-Christ. The anti-Christ is not mentioned in the previous verses.
I believe HE refers back to the Messiah, the Prince.
A pronoun can only be properly used when it is identified in previous statements.

I don't blame you for "not buying" that this was all about 70 AD, and I'm not here to twist your arm. While I hold the Preterist view, I'm not here to convince anyone else to change their views. It's not a "salvation" issue, after all. I'll gladly discuss why I hold to the Preterist view if you are interested, but I won't if you would rather not. But I digress. I was really responding to what you had stated in the OP, that the 7 year tribulation is not explicit in Scripture. That being said, whether the tribulation period is past or future, how long do you think it is, and what do you base that on?

 

[tyndale1946]

I do believe there is a time of tribulation coming.
Do not buy into the "it happened in 70 AD" .
Daniel speaks of 1290 days, 1260 days, and 1335 days and John speaks of 1260 days. All future events.
I do not believe that the pronoun HE used 3 times in Daniel 9:27 refers to the anti-Christ. The anti-Christ is not mentioned in the previous verses.
I believe HE refers back to the Messiah, the Prince.
A pronoun can only be properly used when it is identified in previous statements.

Well here is something for you to chew on, why would the Messiah be referred to as a Prince, when the Messiah is a KING?... Seems to me Jesus got demoted from going to Heaven and returning?... He went to Heaven a King and will return a King!... THE KING IS COMING!... Not a Prince!... Brother Glen

 

[Dayle]

Well here is something for you to chew on, why would the Messiah be referred to as a Prince, when the Messiah is a KING?... Seems to me Jesus got demoted from going to Heaven and returning?... He went to Heaven a King and will return a King!... THE KING IS COMING!... Not a Prince!... Brother Glen

Isaiah 9:6

 

[David Kent]

Well here is something for you to chew on, why would the Messiah be referred to as a Prince, when the Messiah is a KING?... Seems to me Jesus got demoted from going to Heaven and returning?... He went to Heaven a King and will return a King!... THE KING IS COMING!... Not a Prince!... Brother Glen

Seems to me that jesus came as prince at his Baptism and King when he entered jerusalem on an ass. But only a view.

 

[Dayle]

I don't blame you for "not buying" that this was all about 70 AD, and I'm not here to twist your arm. While I hold the Preterist view, I'm not here to convince anyone else to change their views. It's not a "salvation" issue, after all. I'll gladly discuss why I hold to the Preterist view if you are interested, but I won't if you would rather not. But I digress. I was really responding to what you had stated in the OP, that the 7 year tribulation is not explicit in Scripture. That being said, whether the tribulation period is past or future, how long do you think it is, and what do you base that on?

Daniel 9 is speaking of the 70 weeks (490 years) that is required to complete payment for the sin that caused God to expel Israel from the land for 70 years.
After 69 weeks the Messiah will come. At His coming the 70th week began.
The first half of the 70th week was the ministry of Christ where He offered Himself to Israel as their Messiah, King.
When He was rejected and crucified, time was suspended.
Time will began again at the revealing of the anti-Christ.
This is a future event and will be about three and a half years not seven years.
This is the time of tribulation Jesus speaks of.

 

[Lodic]

Daniel 9 is speaking of the 70 weeks (490 years) that is required to complete payment for the sin that caused God to expel Israel from the land for 70 years.
After 69 weeks the Messiah will come. At His coming the 70th week began.
The first half of the 70th week was the ministry of Christ where He offered Himself to Israel as their Messiah, King.
When He was rejected and crucified, time was suspended.
Time will began again at the revealing of the anti-Christ.
This is a future event and will be about three and a half years not seven years.
This is the time of tribulation Jesus speaks of.

I'd heard most of this view before. If I understand this correctly, you believe the tribulation will only be 3 1/2 years, not 7. On that point, we agree. I think the 70th week ended with the Crucifixion. I've heard of a view that the 70th week was when Stephen was martyred and Saul's "Damascus Road" experience. That may be plausible, but I am not positive of that. I am certain that it ended shortly after the Crucifixion, though.

As you would probably expect, I believe the "great tribulation" was limited to Jerusalem and the surrounding area in the Jewish Wars from AD 66-70 (3 1/2 years.) I know the popular view is that the "prophecy clock" stopped as you say, but that view doesn't really make sense to me. For that matter, it didn't make sense to me back when I did believe in a future rapture, "Anti-Christ", and worldwide tribulation.

Side note - I will be signing off in about an hour, but won't be back until at least Monday. My wife is having a procedure where they have to adjust a nerve stimulator in her back. This was done once before, and she had complications. Prayers would be appreciated.

 

[tyndale1946]

I'd heard most of this view before. If I understand this correctly, you believe the tribulation will only be 3 1/2 years, not 7. On that point, we agree. I think the 70th week ended with the Crucifixion. I've heard of a view that the 70th week was when Stephen was martyred and Saul's "Damascus Road" experience. That may be plausible, but I am not positive of that. I am certain that it ended shortly after the Crucifixion, though.

As you would probably expect, I believe the "great tribulation" was limited to Jerusalem and the surrounding area in the Jewish Wars from AD 66-70 (3 1/2 years.) I know the popular view is that the "prophecy clock" stopped as you say, but that view doesn't really make sense to me. For that matter, it didn't make sense to me back when I did believe in a future rapture, "Anti-Christ", and worldwide tribulation.

Side note - I will be signing off in about an hour, but won't be back until at least Monday. My wife is having a procedure where they have to adjust a nerve stimulator in her back. This was done once before, and she had complications. Prayers would be appreciated.

Brother Lodic... My prayers go with you and your wife and as far as this OP this has been hashed and rehashed on this board since I have been here and is nothing new... I will back out now as there is no need for me to enter this discussion...
I was going to leave a side note but why bother!... Take care Brother... Brother Glen

 

[Dayle]

As I see it---
The 70th week began with the baptism of Jesus.
Jesus ministry was about 1185 days.
Time suspended at His crucifixion.

70th week will continue (1335 days remaining, Daniel 12) at the revealing of the anti-Christ ( when he stands up alive after the head wound)
The anti-Christ will have 1290 days (Daniel12) until Jesus return.
He will drive Israel into the wilderness and make war on the saints for 1260 days (Daniel 12),
Jesus returns at the seventh trump (timed shortened) leaving 45 days.
The sevens vials of Gods wrath will be poured pored out.

1185 days Jesus ministry+1290 days of anti-Christ rule+45 days of God's wrath=70th week.

Seems the 7 year belief is based on only one Scripture that I believe is misunderstood.
If there are other Scriptures that prove a 7 year tribulation I will welcome the opportunity study them.

 

[tyndale1946]

As I see it---
The 70th week began with the baptism of Jesus.
Jesus ministry was about 1185 days.
Time suspended at His crucifixion.

70th week will continue (1335 days remaining, Daniel 12) at the revealing of the anti-Christ ( when he stands up alive after the head wound)
The anti-Christ will have 1290 days (Daniel12) until Jesus return.
He will drive Israel into the wilderness and make war on the saints for 1260 days (Daniel 12),
Jesus returns at the seventh trump (timed shortened) leaving 45 days.
The sevens vials of Gods wrath will be poured pored out.

1185 days Jesus ministry+1290 days of anti-Christ rule+45 days of God's wrath=70th week.

Seems the 7 year belief is based on only one Scripture that I believe is misunderstood.
If there are other Scriptures that prove a 7 year tribulation I will welcome the opportunity study them.

One more thing and then I'm gone... I believe Daniel but there is no way on Gods green earth... WILL I EVER BELIEVE DARBY!... Brother Glen...

 

[Dayle]

I also believe Daniel and reject Darby.

 

[tyndale1946]

I also believe Daniel and reject Darby.

I decided I would hang around here for a spell... Then you must be Historical or of the Amil brethren?... Tell me when I'm getting warm... Brother Glen

 

[Dayle]

I decided I would hang around here for a spell... Then you must be Historical or of the Amil brethren?... Tell me when I'm getting warm... Brother Glen

Well, not sure what those labels mean.
Just an old Landmark Baptist.
I was taught the 7 year tribulation belief, as well as the imminent return of Jesus as a young Believer in Baptist churches.
As I began to study for myself, I began to question what I was taught.
An old preacher once said "To know the truth of the Scripture, one should put aside what he believes and with much prayer, search the Scripture".
So, that is what I did.
In addition to my belief on the coming tribulation, I also believe that our gathering to Jesus is at His 7th trump coming.
If I am wrong, about the 7 year tribulation I will welcome any Scripture that proves me wrong other than Daniel 9:27. There must be more Scripture that proves the 7 year tribulation if that is correct.
Brother, I appreciate your discussing this with me.

 

[blacksheep]

I do believe there is a time of tribulation coming.
Do not buy into the "it happened in 70 AD" .
Daniel speaks of 1290 days, 1260 days, and 1335 days and John speaks of 1260 days. All future events.
I do not believe that the pronoun HE used 3 times in Daniel 9:27 refers to the anti-Christ. The anti-Christ is not mentioned in the previous verses.
I believe HE refers back to the Messiah, the Prince.
A pronoun can only be properly used when it is identified in previous statements.

You have it right Dayle. Daniel 9:24-27 is fulfilled. I don't think there's any indication the tribulation last 7 years. It may last 3 1/2 years or somewhere in between. The gathering also happens at the 7th trump at the end of tribulation just like Jesus said.

 

[Dayle]

A little disappointed that more have not responded to my question.
We may all know for sure very shortly.

 

[Van]

End Times debate usually turns on differing speculation as what will happen. To me it takes our focus off of our job as ambassadors of Christ. But in the opening post it was stated we should not base (or I suppose refute) doctrine supported by just one verse. OTOH, scripture cannot be broken and if one verse says such and such is so, then to nullify it because the same teaching cannot be found elsewhere, seems unsound also. It might be that the scribes that added to one gospel to make it read like another gospel were laboring under the same misapprehension.

 

[Lodic]

End Times debate usually turns on differing speculation as what will happen. To me it takes our focus off of our job as ambassadors of Christ. But in the opening post it was stated we should not base (or I suppose refute) doctrine supported by just one verse. OTOH, scripture cannot be broken and if one verse says such and such is so, then to nullify it because the same teaching cannot be found elsewhere, seems unsound also. It might be that the scribes that added to one gospel to make it read like another gospel were laboring under the same misapprehension.

You are absolutely right, Brother. Discussions and speculations are okay, but they easily distract us from our true focus. Whatever our view of the End Times is, there is nothing any of us can do to change anything. Most Christians are familiar enough with "the Mark of the Beast" that we would not be easily fooled into taking it, regardless of our "End Times" view.

 

[Covenanter]

I was taught many years ago that it is not wise to base a doctrine on one verse of Scripture.
Seems that each time I hear or read a teaching on the end times, 70th week of Daniel, or the tribulation period, Daniel 9:27 is quoted as proof that there is a seven year tribulation period coming.
The Anti-Christ will make a peace treaty with Israel for seven years that he will break after three and a half years at which time great tribulation comes.
Can anyone prove to me from Scripture that this is how the end times takes place without using Daniel 9:27.
IF this is the way things unfold, it seems to me that other Scripture would prove it to be true.

I don't think you will find anyone or any Scripture to support a 7-year trib. It is read into Daniel 9.

Daniel 9 is speaking of the 70 weeks (490 years) that is required to complete payment for the sin that caused God to expel Israel from the land for 70 years.
After 69 weeks the Messiah will come. At His coming the 70th week began.
The first half of the 70th week was the ministry of Christ where He offered Himself to Israel as their Messiah, King.
When He was rejected and crucified, time was suspended.
Time will began again at the revealing of the anti-Christ.
This is a future event and will be about three and a half years not seven years.
This is the time of tribulation Jesus speaks of.

Gabriel teaches 70 weeks to complete Messiah's saving work. It seems clear that the beginning of week 70 saw his baptism & anointing. 9:24

The 70th week will then run from his anointing, through his 3 1/2 years of ministry to his crucifixion in the middle of the week. Through that time he has been confirming the (new) covenant with all who received him. After his resurrection he continues confirming the new covenant by the Apostolic Gospel. Many thousands of Jews & Proselytes respond to the Gospel, but the Jewish leaders reject the Messiah & his salvation. They arrest Stephen & during his inspired defence he declares them "uncircumcised." Acts 7:51. Thus the old covenant was ended at the end of the 70th week.

The Gospel was then opened to the Gentiles without circumcision. All that remained was for the invasion & destruction that Jesus had prophesied. Dan. 9:26-27. Mat. 24.

God graciously allowed the Jews about 35 years (a generation) to repent. John's prophesied 3 1/2 years occurred during the final siege, after the believers saw the warning signs (Mat. 24) and fled the city. Signs like the AoD & mark of the beast would have occurred during that time. They are prophesied, but not recorded in Scripture.

Note that "after the 69th week" marks the events of Jesus' ministry, the confirmed covenant & the destruction. It need not take place during the 70th week.