Seventh-day Adventists

[BobRyan]

Under the "one Gospel" Gal 1:6-9 of the "New Covenant" Jeremiah 31:31-33 we are saved by grace through faith and have the new birth and the Law written on the heart - as well as forgiveness of sin.

Yes Steaver -- Allow me to quote it for you -- as stated by C.H. Spurgeon

==============================================================

19. The Law of God

1. God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.
   
   
   
2. The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the ten commandments, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.
   
   
   
3. Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.
   
   
   
4. To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.
   
   
   
5. The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it.
   
   
   
6. Although true believers are not under the law as a covenant of works, to be justified or condemned by it, yet it is of great use to them as well as to others, because as a rule of life it informs them of the will of God and their duty and directs and binds them to walk accordingly. It also reveals and exposes the sinful pollutions of their natures, hearts and lives, and using it for self-examination they may come to greater conviction of sin, greater humility and greater hatred of their sin. They will also gain a clearer sight of their need of Christ and the perfection of His own obedience. It is of further use to regenerate people to restrain their corruptions, because of the way in which it forbids sin. The threatenings of the law serve to show what their sins actually deserve, and what troubles may be expected in this life because of these sins even by regenerate people who are freed from the curse and undiminished rigours of the law. The promises connected with the law also show believers God's approval of obedience, and what blessings they may expect when the law is kept and obeyed, though blessing will not come to them because they have satisfied the law as a covenant of works. If a man does good and refrains from evil simply because the law encourages to the good and deters him from the evil, that is no evidence that he is under the law rather than under grace.
   
   
   
7. The aforementioned uses of the law are not contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but they sweetly comply with it, as the Spirit of Christ subdues and enables the will of man to do freely and cheerfully those things which the will of God, which is revealed in the law, requires to be done.

from - The Baptist Confession of Faith (1689)
=============================================== end quote

SDAs believe in the actual Bible - where we find no man-made-phrases like "non-essentials".

Mark 7:6-13 is a great example of Christ dealing with your so-called "non-essentials".
Eph 6:2 is another great example of Paul dealing with your so-called "non-essentials"
John 14:15 and 1 John 5:2-3 is a great example of John dealing with your so-called "non-essentials"
Rev 14:12 is a great place to see how your so-called "non-essentials" play a part at the end of the world.

steaver said: ↑
Great! Then all the SDA practices apart from this is non essentials and just preferences.

SDAs believe in the actual Bible - where we find no man-made-phrases like "non-essentials".

Mark 7:6-13 is a great example of Christ dealing with your so-called "non-essentials".
Eph 6:2 is another great example of Paul dealing with your so-called "non-essentials"
John 14:15 and 1 John 5:2-3 is a great example of John dealing with your so-called "non-essentials"
Rev 14:12 is a great place to see how your so-called "non-essentials" play a part at the end of the world.

Mark 7:6-13
6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

Eph 6:2 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise),

("first commandment" in WHAT unit of LAW admitted by the Baptist Confession of Faith - to be "written on the heart" under the NEW Covenant?)

John 14:15 "if you LOVE Me KEEP My Commandments" (pre-cross context for commandments)

Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

1 John 5:2-3 "THIS IS the LOVE of God - that we KEEP His Commandments"

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" (Just when some had imagined to themselves "what does NOT MATTER is KEEPING the Commandments of God")

Exodus 20:6 "LOVE Me and KEEP My Commandments"

Now wait a minute. i asked you to give me the essentials to salvation IN YOUR OWN WORDS and you responded with...
"Under the "one Gospel" Gal 1:6-9 of the "New Covenant" Jeremiah 31:31-33 we are saved by grace through faith and have the new birth and the Law written on the heart - as well as forgiveness of sin."

This is Great! It is what I and all baptist believe as well.

Well then no wonder the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19 -- reads as it does.

Nice to have agreement.

 

[BobRyan]

So tellus, O SDAers reading this:

Is Jesus the archangel Michael? (PROOF, PLEASE, if yes.)

Jesus is one of the "three men" that Abraham sees in Genesis 18

Genesis 18
Now the LORD (YHWH) appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day. 2 When he lifted up his eyes and looked, behold, three men were standing opposite him; and when he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them and bowed himself to the earth,

Two of those "men" were angels
One of them was YHWH.
all of them called "men" not because Angels and God are "men" but because that is the form that they appeared to Abraham.

Hint - look in the 28 Fundamental beliefs of Seventh-day Adventists you find not one belief/doctrine that God the Son is merely "an angel" - but when you read the Bible you find that God can take on different forms "appearances" including a Dove at Christ's baptism.

Just stating the obvious. God the Son is the commander of the Hosts of heaven - "let all the angels worship Him".

 

[BobRyan]

All the other non essentials such as what day to corporately gather to worship on or what one should or should not eat has nothing to do with salvation. Unless you as an SDA do believe these things are essential to salvation? You don't right?

People who call the word of God "non essentials" are on shaky ground.
I for one believe we should not take God's name in vain - even though that command it not quoted in the NT.

The saints of Rev 14:12 do not call the Commandments of God "non essentials". Rather the Word of God is living and active and sharper than a two-edged sword Hebrews 4.

We seem to differ on that point.

 

[Yeshua1]

Since you offer no scripture to back your statement up - I assume you are exercising your right of free will to just make stuff up.

Fine... but I prefer the actual Bible on the subject of 1 Cor 12 , spiritual gifts and the way that scripture defines what prophecy and the gift of prophecy is.

There are NO instances in the scriptures that either the office of the Apostle/Prophet were to continue, and once again, Ellen White missed the mark of being a true one, as she made wrong statements, and gave wrong theology forth!

 

[Yeshua1]

So do I and all Baptist. The non essentials I asked you about was for salvation. Certainly you do not believe selling all you have and giving it to the poor is an essential for salvation, or do you?

SDA does NOT hold to the true Gospel , as they hold to Ellen White was a true prophetess, and they hold to saved by mixture of Law and Grace!

 

[Yeshua1]

People who call the word of God "non essentials" are on shaky ground.
I for one believe we should not take God's name in vain - even though that command it not quoted in the NT.

The saints of Rev 14:12 do not call the Commandments of God "non essentials". Rather the Word of God is living and active and sharper than a two-edged sword Hebrews 4.

We seem to differ on that point.

Do you believe that one is saved by grace alone faith alone, or must we keep the Sabbath, obey Ellen White etc?

 

[robycop3]

Under the "one Gospel" Gal 1:6-9 of the "New Covenant" Jeremiah 31:31-33 we are saved by grace through faith and have the new birth and the Law written on the heart - as well as forgiveness of sin.

Yes Steaver -- Allow me to quote it for you -- as stated by C.H. Spurgeon

==============================================================

19. The Law of God

1. God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.
   
   
   
2. The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the ten commandments, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.
   
   
   
3. Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.
   
   
   
4. To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.
   
   
   
5. The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it.
   
   
   
6. Although true believers are not under the law as a covenant of works, to be justified or condemned by it, yet it is of great use to them as well as to others, because as a rule of life it informs them of the will of God and their duty and directs and binds them to walk accordingly. It also reveals and exposes the sinful pollutions of their natures, hearts and lives, and using it for self-examination they may come to greater conviction of sin, greater humility and greater hatred of their sin. They will also gain a clearer sight of their need of Christ and the perfection of His own obedience. It is of further use to regenerate people to restrain their corruptions, because of the way in which it forbids sin. The threatenings of the law serve to show what their sins actually deserve, and what troubles may be expected in this life because of these sins even by regenerate people who are freed from the curse and undiminished rigours of the law. The promises connected with the law also show believers God's approval of obedience, and what blessings they may expect when the law is kept and obeyed, though blessing will not come to them because they have satisfied the law as a covenant of works. If a man does good and refrains from evil simply because the law encourages to the good and deters him from the evil, that is no evidence that he is under the law rather than under grace.
   
   
   
7. The aforementioned uses of the law are not contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but they sweetly comply with it, as the Spirit of Christ subdues and enables the will of man to do freely and cheerfully those things which the will of God, which is revealed in the law, requires to be done.

from - The Baptist Confession of Faith (1689)

Ignoring every detail freely confessed in the Baptist Confession of Faith - Steaver responds with...



SDAs believe in the actual Bible - where we find no man-made-phrases like "non-essentials".

Mark 7:6-13 is a great example of Christ dealing with your so-called "non-essentials".
Eph 6:2 is another great example of Paul dealing with your so-called "non-essentials"
John 14:15 and 1 John 5:2-3 is a great example of John dealing with your so-called "non-essentials"
Rev 14:12 is a great place to see how your so-called "non-essentials" play a part at the end of the world.[/QUOTE]

So, what's the actual Bible to Seven-Day-Adlibbers? The KJV, as an SDA official, Dr. Ben Wilkinson, wrote the "foundation stone book" for the current KJVO myth, or the "Clear Word Bible" by SDA official Jack Blanco?

 

[utilyan]

Do you believe that one is saved by grace alone faith alone, or must we keep the Sabbath, obey Ellen White etc?

They keep Ellen G white in the closet until years after they sucker a convert.



If I had a living modern day PROPHET I would be spouting everything they say no ifs, and, or buts.

Because everything they say that GOD told them to say, is automatically equal to holy scripture, You can even write it down its part of the bible.

So why is her GOD DICTATED work not in the bible? Cause its fake.

 

[BobRyan]

steaver said: ↑
No Bob, this is a board to give your views in your own words, you may give references, but just answer my question in your words. I gave you an example...

"What I mean by "essentials" is the must do's or not do's in order to receive salvation. For example would keeping Saturday Sabbath be an essential or just a preference or non essential?"

Under the "one Gospel" Gal 1:6-9 of the "New Covenant" Jeremiah 31:31-33 we are saved by grace through faith and have the new birth and the Law written on the heart - as well as forgiveness of sin.

Yes Steaver -- Allow me to quote it for you -- as stated by C.H. Spurgeon

==============================================================

19. The Law of God

1. God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.
   
   
   
2. The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the ten commandments, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.
   
   
   
3. Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.
   
   
   
4. To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.
   
   
   
5. The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it.
   
   
   
6. Although true believers are not under the law as a covenant of works, to be justified or condemned by it, yet it is of great use to them as well as to others, because as a rule of life it informs them of the will of God and their duty and directs and binds them to walk accordingly. It also reveals and exposes the sinful pollutions of their natures, hearts and lives, and using it for self-examination they may come to greater conviction of sin, greater humility and greater hatred of their sin. They will also gain a clearer sight of their need of Christ and the perfection of His own obedience. It is of further use to regenerate people to restrain their corruptions, because of the way in which it forbids sin. The threatenings of the law serve to show what their sins actually deserve, and what troubles may be expected in this life because of these sins even by regenerate people who are freed from the curse and undiminished rigours of the law. The promises connected with the law also show believers God's approval of obedience, and what blessings they may expect when the law is kept and obeyed, though blessing will not come to them because they have satisfied the law as a covenant of works. If a man does good and refrains from evil simply because the law encourages to the good and deters him from the evil, that is no evidence that he is under the law rather than under grace.
   
   
   
7. The aforementioned uses of the law are not contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but they sweetly comply with it, as the Spirit of Christ subdues and enables the will of man to do freely and cheerfully those things which the will of God, which is revealed in the law, requires to be done.

from - The Baptist Confession of Faith (1689)[/QUOTE]

Ignoring every detail freely confessed in the Baptist Confession of Faith - Steaver responds with...

steaver said: ↑
Great! Then all the SDA practices apart from this is non essentials and just preferences.

SDAs believe in the actual Bible - where we find no man-made-phrases like "non-essentials".

Mark 7:6-13 is a great example of Christ dealing with your so-called "non-essentials".
Eph 6:2 is another great example of Paul dealing with your so-called "non-essentials"
John 14:15 and 1 John 5:2-3 is a great example of John dealing with your so-called "non-essentials"
Rev 14:12 is a great place to see how your so-called "non-essentials" play a part at the end of the world.

So, what's the actual Bible to Seven-Day-Adlibbers?

All translations welcomed - as you see in the examples above - I use NASB and NKJV a lot.

Did you have a point?

Did you "imagine" that the paraphase/commentary "Jack wrote" for his grandchildren was being quoted??
I have about 30,000 posts here - see if your claims hold up in "real life".

 

[BobRyan]

They keep Ellen G white in the closet until years after they sucker a convert.
.

Do you continue to rely on creative writing "much"???

Belief #18
The Scriptures testify that one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and we believe it was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. Her writings speak with prophetic authority and provide comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction to the church. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Num. 12:6; 2 Chron. 20:20; Amos 3:7; Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; 2 Tim. 3:16, 17; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10; 22:8, 9.)

All people are introduced to our short statement of 28 beliefs first - and part of the baptismal vow is to ask if they agree.

So that is "day 1". Not "closet until years later" in the fiction-as-false-accusation model you have chosen.

Less fiction... more real life please.

 

[BobRyan]

Under the "one Gospel" Gal 1:6-9 of the "New Covenant" Jeremiah 31:31-33 we are saved by grace through faith and have the new birth and the Law written on the heart - as well as forgiveness of sin.

Yes Steaver -- Allow me to quote it for you -- as stated by C.H. Spurgeon

==============================================================

19. The Law of God

1. God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.
   
   
   
2. The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the ten commandments, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.
   
   
   
3. Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.
   
   
   
4. To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.
   
   
   
5. The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it.
   
   
   
6. Although true believers are not under the law as a covenant of works, to be justified or condemned by it, yet it is of great use to them as well as to others, because as a rule of life it informs them of the will of God and their duty and directs and binds them to walk accordingly. It also reveals and exposes the sinful pollutions of their natures, hearts and lives, and using it for self-examination they may come to greater conviction of sin, greater humility and greater hatred of their sin. They will also gain a clearer sight of their need of Christ and the perfection of His own obedience. It is of further use to regenerate people to restrain their corruptions, because of the way in which it forbids sin. The threatenings of the law serve to show what their sins actually deserve, and what troubles may be expected in this life because of these sins even by regenerate people who are freed from the curse and undiminished rigours of the law. The promises connected with the law also show believers God's approval of obedience, and what blessings they may expect when the law is kept and obeyed, though blessing will not come to them because they have satisfied the law as a covenant of works. If a man does good and refrains from evil simply because the law encourages to the good and deters him from the evil, that is no evidence that he is under the law rather than under grace.
   
   
   
7. The aforementioned uses of the law are not contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but they sweetly comply with it, as the Spirit of Christ subdues and enables the will of man to do freely and cheerfully those things which the will of God, which is revealed in the law, requires to be done.

from - The Baptist Confession of Faith (1689)

Do you believe that one is saved by grace alone faith alone, or must we keep the Sabbath, obey Ellen White etc?

Read section 19 of the Baptist Confession of Faith.

And notice the answer above...

Under the "one Gospel" Gal 1:6-9 of the "New Covenant" Jeremiah 31:31-33 we are saved by grace through faith and have the new birth and the Law written on the heart - as well as forgiveness of sin.


==========================


Mark 7:6-13 is a great example of Christ dealing with so-called "non-essentials".
Eph 6:2 is another great example of Paul dealing with so-called "non-essentials"
John 14:15 and 1 John 5:2-3 is a great example of John dealing with so-called "non-essentials"
Rev 14:12 is a great place to see how so-called "non-essentials" play a part at the end of the world.

Mark 7:6-13
6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

Eph 6:2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise),

("first commandment" in WHAT unit of LAW admitted by the Baptist Confession of Faith - to be "written on the heart" under the NEW Covenant?)

John 14:15 "if you LOVE Me KEEP My Commandments" (pre-cross context for commandments)

Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

1 John 5:2-3 "THIS IS the LOVE of God - that we KEEP His Commandments"

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" (Just when some had imagined to themselves "what does NOT MATTER is KEEPING the Commandments of God")

Exodus 20:6 "LOVE Me and KEEP My Commandments"


Well then no wonder the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19 -- reads as it does.

 

[utilyan]

Do you continue to rely on creative writing "much"???

Belief #18
The Scriptures testify that one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and we believe it was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. Her writings speak with prophetic authority and provide comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction to the church. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Num. 12:6; 2 Chron. 20:20; Amos 3:7; Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; 2 Tim. 3:16, 17; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10; 22:8, 9.)

All people are introduced to our short statement of 28 beliefs first - and part of the baptismal vow is to ask if they agree.

So that is "day 1". Not "closet until years later" in the fiction-as-false-accusation model you have chosen.

Less fiction... more real life please.

Then put it up. I bet I've posted more of Ellen G White's work then you have.

If she is a prophet all God directed writings are holy scripture, that is a notch above most scripture. Because dictated by God is greater then inspired by God.

 

[robycop3]

Jesus is one of the "three men" that Abraham sees in Genesis 18

Genesis 18
Now the LORD (YHWH) appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day. 2 When he lifted up his eyes and looked, behold, three men were standing opposite him; and when he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them and bowed himself to the earth,

Two of those "men" were angels
One of them was YHWH.
all of them called "men" not because Angels and God are "men" but because that is the form that they appeared to Abraham.

Hint - look in the 28 Fundamental beliefs of Seventh-day Adventists you find not one belief/doctrine that God the Son is merely "an angel" - but when you read the Bible you find that God can take on different forms "appearances" including a Dove at Christ's baptism.

Just stating the obvious. God the Son is the commander of the Hosts of heaven - "let all the angels worship Him".

From the writings of the SDA's "prophetess":


“The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty.”


SOURCE: Ellen G. White (1903, ms 150, SDA; Commentary V, p. 1129)

Clear Word Bible -Jude 1:9 "In contrast to these ungodly men is the Lord Jesus Christ, also called Michael, the archangel in charge of the entire angelic host. When He was challenged by Satan about His intentions to resurrect Moses, He didn't come against Satan with a blistering attack nor did he belittle him. He simply said, 'God rejects your claim to his body.'"

That's from the SDA's bible.

So, both their bible and prophetess were wrong?

 

[robycop3]

Do you continue to rely on creative writing "much"???

Belief #18
The Scriptures testify that one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and we believe it was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. Her writings speak with prophetic authority and provide comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction to the church. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Num. 12:6; 2 Chron. 20:20; Amos 3:7; Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; 2 Tim. 3:16, 17; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10; 22:8, 9.)

All people are introduced to our short statement of 28 beliefs first - and part of the baptismal vow is to ask if they agree.

So that is "day 1". Not "closet until years later" in the fiction-as-false-accusation model you have chosen.

Less fiction... more real life please.

Several of those 28 beliefa are completely false of course.

# 18 says Ellen G. White was a prophetess. That's false, as EGW missed on many of her prophecies, and a REAL prophet of GOD must have a "batting average" of 1.000.

She prophesied the world would end in 1843, 1844, 1845 & 1851: "Now time is almost finished, (1851) and what we have been 6 years in learning they will have to learn in months." EARLY WRITINGS p. 57

And her dietary stuff is utterly ridiculous! had she followed them herself, she would not have lived long as she did!

The Sabbath stuff is man-made as well. God gave Sabbath-observing to ISRAEL ONLY! Other people who joined the old Israelis were not required to keep the sabbath, but were required to respect the Israelis' keeping of it. And we see in the New testament that it was NOT required of non-Jewish Christians.

The "investigative judgment" of Belief # 24 is false as well. Scripture says Jesus is sitting at His Father's right side for now. While He and His father are likely doing more than sitting on thrones all the tume, there's nothing saying Jesus is staying in the heavenly temple. The beginning of judgment is dished out the moment one dies. One's soul goes to paradise ot "torments", depending upon one's relationship with Jesus at the moment of earthly death.

# 27 is utterly-false & man-made. Jesus and His saints will reign ON EARTH during the millenium. That's evident from Scripture, as the antichrist's EARTHLY army will come against Him at His return, and when Satan is loosed at the end of the millenium, Scripture says he will raise an EARTHLY army against the "camp of the saints", which will be at Jerusalem.

I know several former SDAs who say theis church keeps EGW mostly under-wraps til they're pretty sure newer members have bought into the rest of their hooey. And I have heard it FIRST HAND from them, not read it from some literature!

SDA IS A PSEUDO/QUASI-CHRISTIAN CULT!

 

[BobRyan]

utilyan said: ↑
They keep Ellen G white in the closet until years after they sucker a convert.

.

Do you continue to rely on creative writing "much"???

Belief #18
The Scriptures testify that one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and we believe it was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. Her writings speak with prophetic authority and provide comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction to the church. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Num. 12:6; 2 Chron. 20:20; Amos 3:7; Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; 2 Tim. 3:16, 17; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10; 22:8, 9.)

All people are introduced to our short statement of 28 beliefs first - and part of the baptismal vow is to ask if they agree.

So that is "day 1". Not "closet until years later" in the fiction-as-false-accusation model you have chosen.

Less fiction... more real life please.

Then put it up.

Your false claim was just fully unmasked and you said "then put it up"????

Are you even reading the posts. I just proved that your "until years later" literary fiction was ... "fiction".

Is the point where you admit it?

If she is a prophet all God directed writings are holy scripture, that is a notch above most scripture. Because dictated by God is greater then inspired by God.

more "creative writing"???

Are you simply making stuff up as your argument?

All squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares.

The Bible is full of references to prophets in NT and OT that do not write a single book of the Bible.
Not every prophet mentioned in NT or OT also authored a book in the Bible.... obviously.
Even Paul indicates that he has written letters to the churches that we know are missing from the NT text.

Your arguments should be based on something other than fiction if you want to present more than your speculation on this subject. Make the compelling argument.

 

[BobRyan]

robycop3 said: ↑
So tellus, O SDAers reading this:

Is Jesus the archangel Michael? (PROOF, PLEASE, if yes.)

Jesus is one of the "three men" that Abraham sees in Genesis 18

Genesis 18
Now the LORD (YHWH) appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day. 2 When he lifted up his eyes and looked, behold, three men were standing opposite him; and when he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them and bowed himself to the earth,

Two of those "men" were angels
One of them was YHWH.
all of them called "men" not because Angels and God are "men" but because that is the form that they appeared to Abraham.

Hint - look in the 28 Fundamental beliefs of Seventh-day Adventists you find not one belief/doctrine that God the Son is merely "an angel" - but when you read the Bible you find that God can take on different forms "appearances" including a Dove at Christ's baptism.

Just stating the obvious. God the Son is the commander of the Hosts of heaven - "let all the angels worship Him".

From the writings of the SDA's "prophetess":
“The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty.”
SOURCE: Ellen G. White (1903, ms 150, SDA; Commentary V, p. 1129)

Your half-quote is not the compelling argument you have imagined it to be..

Genesis 18 "saw three men standing opposite him" -- in form not in substance as we know from the text.

Hint - look in the 28 Fundamental beliefs of Seventh-day Adventists you find not one belief/doctrine that God the Son is merely "an angel"

You are unwittingly quoting a tiny snippet from a paragraph declaring Christ to be fully God - and so once again your policy of not actually reading what you are quoting -- does not serve your attack at all.


“When Isaiah predicted the birth of Christ he declared, "Unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even forever" (Isaiah 9:6, 7).” –MR 7, No. 515.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God." John 1:1, 2. Christ, the Word, the only begotten of God, was one with the eternal Father--one in nature, in character, in purpose--the only being that could enter into all the counsels and purposes of God. "His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." Isaiah 9:6.” –Patriarchs and Prophets. page 35.

“But although Christ's divine glory was for a time veiled and eclipsed by His assuming humanity, yet He did not cease to be God when He became man. The human did not take the place of the divine, nor the divine of the human. This is the mystery of godliness... Christ left His position in the heavenly courts, and came to this earth to live the life of human beings. This sacrifice He made in order to show that Satan's charge against God is false--...There is no one who can explain the mystery of the incarnation of Christ. Yet we know that He came to this earth and lived as a man among men. The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty, yet Christ and the Father are one. The Deity did not sink under the agonizing torture of Calvary, yet it is nonetheless true that "God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." -S.D.A Bible Commentary, Vol. 5 (1956). pp. 1129, 1130.


By His humanity, Christ touched humanity; by His divinity, He lays hold upon the throne of God. As the Son of man, He gave us an example of obedience; as the Son of God, He gives us power to obey. It was Christ who from the bush on Mount Horeb spoke to Moses saying, “I AM THAT I AM.... Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.” Exodus 3:14. This was the pledge of Israel’s deliverance. So when He came “in the likeness of men,” He declared Himself the I AM. The Child of Bethlehem, the meek and lowly Saviour, is God “manifest in the flesh.” 1 Timothy 3:16. And to us He says: “I AM the Good Shepherd.” “I AM the living Bread.” “I AM the Way, the Truth, and the Life.” “All power is given unto Me in heaven and in earth.” John 10:11; 6:51; 14:6; Matthew 28:18. I AM the assurance of every promise. I AM; be not afraid. “God with us” is the surety of our deliverance from sin, the assurance of our power to obey the law of heaven. {DA 24.3}


You have taken a statement about the incarnate nature of Christ (one being with TWO natures) which no man can fully comprehend - extracted a tiny snippet of "go and do thou likewise" to construct your false narrative.

Unwittingly you have asked to have highlighted the strongest statements that exist on planet earth about the deity of Christ.

 

[BobRyan]

I know several former SDAs who say theis church keeps EGW mostly under-wraps

Just shows how clueless they are given the 28 Fundamental Beliefs contain a statement about Ellen White having the 1 Cor 12 spiritual gift of prophecy - and ask at every baptism if the person joining has read and is in agreement with those 28 brief statements. The facts are public ... your access to a few clueless ex-sdas is not being challenged.

 

[BobRyan]

The Sabbath stuff is man-made as well. God gave Sabbath-observing to ISRAEL ONLY! Other people who joined the old Israelis were not required to keep the sabbath, but were required to respect the Israelis' keeping of it.

your ability to "make stuff up" is exceptional.

Isaiah 66:23 says sabbath is for "ALL MANKIND"
Mark 2:27 Christ said the Sabbath "was MADE for MANKIND"
Isaiah 56:5-8 singles out gentiles SPECIFICALLY - for Sabbath Keeping
Acts 18:4 "EVERY Sabbath" BOTH Jews AND Gentiles gather for Gospel preaching even after accepting Paul's teaching.
Jeremiah 31:31-33 says the NEW COVENANT is for "The house of ISRAEL" - are you also rejecting the NEW Covenant???
Exodus 20:1-2 says the TEN Commandments are for Israel -- that includes "Do not take God's name in vain" are you also rejecting the Commandments of God.

D.L. Moody, R.C. Sproul, Andy Stanley, EVEN the Baptist Confession of Faith , admit that the TEN Commandments are included in the moral law of God given to mankind - written on the heart - under the NEW Covenant.

Please take a position that your OWN group will admit is solid - before trying to convince others of an unsound position that even your own will not accept.

You guys are always leaving me with the easy job of affirming the Bible against your false accusations? Why do that? This is the "Baptist Board" you are supposed to be affirming "sola scriptura" methods. What is up with all this making stuff up???

 

[BobRyan]

The "investigative judgment" of Belief # 24 is false as well.

Until you open your Bible and read -- Daniel 7.
Until you open your Bible and read - 2 Cor 5:10 "we must all stand before the judgment seat of Christ"
Until you open your Bible and read - Romans 2:4-16

Scripture says Jesus is sitting at His Father's right side for now. While He and His father are likely doing more than sitting on thrones all the tume, there's nothing saying Jesus is staying in the heavenly temple.

Until you open your Bible and read - Hebrews 8 and 9 - Christ is ruling and performing his role as High Priest seated at the right hand of the Father. As even in the OT Zechariah 6:13 predicts " Thus, He will be a priest on His throne, and the counsel of peace will be between the two offices.”

 

[BobRyan]

# 27 is utterly-false & man-made. Jesus and His saints will reign ON EARTH during the millenium.

Totally false.

1 Thess 4 says the "Dead in Christ will rise first" and then the living saints along with the resurrected saints taken to heaven.
Rev 20:4-5 says that this "FIRST resurrection" takes place at the start of the 1000 year millennium.
Rev 19 says that the remaining --i.e. the wicked are destroyed at the 2nd coming "the REST were killed".

The OT describes a "desolate earth" with "no man" and only destroyed cities for that 1000 year period of time.

Bible details matter.

I choose the Bible over man-made tradition to the contrary. Join me.