Seventh-Day Adventists

[bound]

Hi Claudia_T,

You do know that the Samaritans were considered "unclean" by the Jews. It was 'clarity' that fulfills the law of God. It's 'not' rigorist observance to a codified ethnic rule. Charity cannot be codified, it can only be pointed to.

Again let me ask you, "Why did Jesus Christ die"? What did that death procure for you if you but claim it?

Regardless, that we are all disagreeing with each other I would like you all to know that I am enjoying this conversation and learning about Adventism. Perhaps there will be a break through and we will come to an understanding. I don't know but I continue to have that hope.

Takecare.

 

[Claudia_T]

Hi Claudia_T,

You do know that the Samaritans were considered "unclean" by the Jews. It was 'clarity' that fulfills the law of God. It's 'not' rigorist observance to a codified ethnic rule. Charity cannot be codified, it can only be pointed to.

Again let me ask you, "Why did Jesus Christ die"? What did that death procure for you if you but claim it?

Regardless, that we are all disagreeing with each other I would like you all to know that I am enjoying this conversation and learning about Adventism. Perhaps there will be a break through and we will come to an understanding. I don't know but I continue to have that hope.

Takecare.

I think that if you were to read this passage you might come to an understanding of the Seventh Day Adventist view of the Law as it relates to the grace of God.


Galatians 2:
16: Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

17: But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
18: For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
19: For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
20: I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

21: I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.


You can walk and chew gum at the same time, you can thoroughly accept the grace of God and apply it while at the same time realizing that God doesnt want you living in sin. You are supposed to DIE and allow Jesus to LIVE in you. Galatians 2:16 in the passage above that talks about the fact we are justified NOT BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW is NOT, NOT, NOT in opposition to the rest of that passage!!! when understood rightly!

the term SINNER means transgressor of the Law of God. Now re-read verse 17 again:

17: But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

This is not to be taken to mean that we will never again SIN... read:

1Jn:2:1: My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous


God doesnt want you to sin, because you are under grace... He asks you to "sin not" yet if you fall (which you often will) you have an Advocate... Jesus Christ..

you want to stop sinning because you LOVE GOD... not because you want to try and somehow EARN salvation....


do you see how it says that by dying to the law and to sin that this DOES NOT MEAN you are somehow "frustrating" the grace of God? THIS is what you are not getting...


Do you understand YOU are not DOING ANYTHING! You are DEAD! You have chosen to allow yourself to die and allow Jesus Christ to LIVE IN YOU... and what will Jesus Christ do inside of you? SIN???? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! That is why the Bible verse says Jesus is NOT the minister of sin!

Jesus will live His righteous life in you.... therefore you are NOT trying to frustrate the grace of God or "earn" salvation.

and every day, every hour, every minute you are relying on the grace of God, the merits of Christ...

but allowing Jesus Christ to live in you... "CHRIST IN YOU... the hope of glory!"


Rom:6:6: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Gal:2:20: I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

THIS is true living FAITH... "I live by THE FAITH of the Son of God" it says. HOW??? by being crucified with Christ... by allowing that old man of sin to "be destroyed"! and by allowing Jesus Christ to now live in you through the Holy Spirit... producing the fruits of the Spirit.


NOW read Romans chapter 8 in light of all I just showed you:
1: There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2: For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3: For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5: For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6: For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7: Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8: So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9: But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10: And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.


and please be aware that God does NOT want you to be "carnal minded" meaning that you are not subject to the law of God! its the same thing as living in the "flesh" which we are NOT supposed to be doing! (see verses 7 and 8) but instead you DIE and allow the Spirit of God to dwell in you... if you then "mind the things of the Spirit" you certainly are not going to be killing, stealing and worshipping idols. you are not going to be carnal minded anymore... meaning not to be subject to the law of God...

there are only two ways to go here... either you are carnal minded or you arent... you are either carnal minded or spiritually minded.... one is not subject to the law of God and the other IS.


REMEMBER that verse 9 says if we dont do this, die and allow the Spirit of God to live in us... so that we are no longer carnally minded (meaning we dont do the law of God) then we are 'NONE OF HIS' !!!


Claudia

 

[Claudia_T]

I wish everyone would read and re-read that last post I made about 18,000 times. Maybe I wrote this one in a way that will actually get through to a few people.


Philippians 2:12,13
"Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."

 

[bound]

I wish everyone would read and re-read that last post I made about 18,000 times. Maybe I wrote this one in a way that will actually get through to a few people.


Philippians 2:12,13
"Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."

Hi Claudia_T,

I don't have an issue with your desire to be without sin. I have a problem with you defining sin as a failure to observe jew laws which have been sublated by our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Could you address my comments in my pervious posts regarding women menstruation? Do you consider that it makes them ritually unclean? Are they allow in the Sabbath Worship Services?

Do you stone Adulterers? What is the punishment for failure to observe kosher laws?

Be well.

 

[DHK]

What a perfect illustration of my "good bible -vs- bad bible" post on page 1!!!
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=909169&postcount=5

In the case above - the notion of eating rats, cats, dogs and bats usualy does not appeal to Christians - but when it comes to Lev 11 suddenly there are those who feel it is to demanding of God to tell them that these pets are not lunch.

Thanks for that illustration!

Yes Bob, thanks for your illustration. If this thread is being read world-wide you have just offended entire cultures of peoples. There are cultures that eat both cats and dogs. They also consider them as delicacies, as the French would, frog's legs, and the Russians, fish eggs--caviar. Right now plenty of people eat insects of all kinds. Just because certain animals don't appeal to you, doesn't mean they don't appeal to others and that others don't eat them. That is illogical, and called a sweeping generalization--an illogical fallacy. You are arguing from your emotions instead of from truth.
The truth is that God has made all creatures good and nothing to be refused: whether or not they be pigs, cats or dogs. All of them are good to eat. I have been on survival trips and have had to eat what was available. We snared rabbits. We would have no trouble shooting a coyote which is not that much different than dog meat. Man does what he has to do in order to survive. There has been many a prisoner who has eaten rats to stay alive. Eskimos thrive on raw caribou. So it doesn't appeal to the niceties of your comfortable western diet. Neither did the diet of John the Baptist. But every creature of God is good and nothing to be refused. That includes pork. You either believe the Bible or you don't. On this matter you don't.

in this post you refer to Lev 11 as "Jewish Law" and claim that by contrast GOD also has Law -- Law that predates "Jewish Law".

But the NT Authors tell us "ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration from GOD" 2Tim 3:16 -- and "NO scripture is a matter of ones OWN interpretation but Holy Men of old moved by the Holy Spirit SPOKE FROM GOD". 2Pet 1

So the BIBLE claims that GOD is the AUTHOR of the Word of God -- yet here we see Christians "dividing up the Word of God" between "Jewish Law and God's Law". 2Pet 1

No wonder these people who carve up the Word of God in that way would object to those who accept ALL the Word of God as it is.

Wrong again Bob. You can't mix and choose the Scriptures you want to obey and disobey. In the same book of Leviticus it says to wear clothing made of all one cloth. Why don't you keep that command as well. Can you do it--all leather or all linen, or all wool. No mixed cotton and with other synthetic materials. No synthetic materials at all. You can't do it Bob. Our culture is not as such. You fail in one part of the law and you fail in all parts of the law, and are cursed under the law (Gal.3:10).

In Gen 6-8 we see the unclean animals (rats, cats, dogs and bats) go into the ark by TWOs and the CLEAN animals (sheept, cows, goats, deer...) go into the ark by sevens. It is supposed by some that there was a Jew standing at the door of Noah's ark telling him which ones to call clean.

Bob, dear Bob, the so-called clean animals before the law, were for the purpose of sacrifice and had nothing to do whether they were edible or not. They took seven of each kind so that they would have animals to sacrifice when they reached land. It was not necessary to sacrifice a rat or bat. They would sacrifice as God commanded them to do. God communicated those instructions to Adam and then to Abel. But Cain refused to follow those instructions and was judged by God for it. It had nothing to do with dietary instructions. You assume too much and are reading into Scripture things that are not there.
The plain facts of Scripture are these:

Call thou not unclean what I have called clean.
Every creature of God is clean and nothing to be refused.

If you refuse to believe the clear statements of God, then you remain in a state of unbelief

 

[Samuel Owen]

DHK, Bound, and others.

I will make one more post, “not in rebuttal to any other”, so as to not break my word. My son has a friend, the source from which the Twelve disks came from I mentioned earlier. He has been caught up in this movement several times, though he seems to get over it he just returns again.

It is not even fruitful to argue with him, as he seems totally blind to any other interpretation other than he has been taught. I say taught, because no one could come to these conclusions unless they were taught to do so. I personally have never know anyone who ever studied the Bible, to come to conclusions like these on their own.

Its my opinion once some one falls into one of these Heresy traps they are so blinded by it, they are incapable of seeing the truth any longer. This is really bad. A heresy that conflicts with the Grace of God is not just a simple misunderstanding, or misinterpretation, it is Damnable.

Go anywhere on the Inter-Net, and you will not find anyone who agrees with the SDA, except the SDA. Some of the excerpts I poster by others may presuppose to their opinions, but it is easy to see how they do it.
When you read the SDA creeds you can come out with many presupposed opinions, because the inferences are there to cause them. As with many Heresies their statements are Gray, not black and white. This is how they as others like them - are able to dupe those of little decernment.

I should have known to never have gotton into this debate, I have done it before and promised I would never do it again. It has done no one a cents worth of good, and has only shown those of little understanding more reasons not to believe. When unbelievers see Christians argue (whether they are or not), they see no reason to look into it as they can get into better arguments down at the local bar (and some pretty good fights also).

So the better thing to do is just pray for these folks, and leave it be. God will sort it all out in the end.

The sad thing is if you choose to obey one law, you are now stuck to obey all of them (James plainly says that). The SDA does not seem to understand this, and the fact they will be judged by the law. Of which the scriptures say no man can be justified. Grace is greater than the law, and superseded it, so why would you choose law. :wavey: :godisgood:

 

[Claudia_T]

wow... amazing.

 

[Claudia_T]

Can all of you please tell me which of these 10 Commandments are okay to break now that you have accepted Jesus Christ and claim to be a Christian? I would like to know...

If you believe that the Bible tells us to love God and love your neighbor then which of these does not apply anymore?


LOVE GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, MIND AND SOUL:

1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

3. Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.


LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF:

5. Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

6. Thou shalt not kill.

7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.

8. Thou shalt not steal.

9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

10.Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

 

[Claudia_T]

Is it Thou shalt not kill?

Is that the commandment you can break?

Can someone please explain to me what is the difference between what is said in 1John 3:15 which was said AFTER the Cross of Christ and what is said in Matthew 5:17-22 which was said BEFORE the Cross of Christ?


1Jn:3:15: Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.



Matthew 5:
17: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18: For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19: Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20: For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
21: Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

 

[bound]

Hi Claudia_T,

According to the Bible, Christians gathered on Sundays from the very beginning of the Church. "And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight." (Acts 20:7). Elsewhere, the Apostle Paul told the Christians in Corinth to give money to the Church on Sundays (1 Cor. 16:1-2) -- a command which would have been rather hard to fulfill if the community only met on the Sabbath!

(By the way, the earliest Pagan references to Christian practices unanimously indicate that Christians assembled on Sunday morning for a Eucharistic service, cf. Pliny's Letter to Trajan circa 110 AD; Celsus's polemic against the Christians, etc.)

With regard to the observance of Mosaic Law:

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ." (Colossians 2:16-17)

Please give this further thought.

Be Well.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Hi Claudia_T,

I don't have an issue with your desire to be without sin. I have a problem with you defining sin as a failure to observe jew laws which have been sublated by our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Could you address my comments in my pervious posts regarding women menstruation? Do you consider that it makes them ritually unclean? Are they allow in the Sabbath Worship Services?

Do you stone Adulterers? What is the punishment for failure to observe kosher laws?

Be well.

GE:
I'm not SDA, yet I'll try an answer to this one.
ALL those laws - you claim were "jew laws" - in fact were Christ laws! They without exception pointed to the Saviour, who "was made sin for us". And we the judges. Yes, we stoned Him as were He an adulterer, as were He unclean and the contaminator of mankind with all evil. And we the just and righteous ... So are we; and so made God, Jesus, "for us".
These "jew laws" tell us that; the bring us to Christ. The believer cannot do without them; not without a single one of them. And God provides the elect with all these laws in the ONE: Jesus Christ, who was crucified, and He, the LAW of God, sacrificed and annulled and making void the subpoena aginst us.
God raised Him from the dead again, don't you forget it, for His laws will get you however clever you may argue against any of them. If not the Rock pulverises you, you shall not be saved.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

And by the buy, kosher laws aren't Old Testament laws.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I always ask anti-Old Testament people this question: What are you actually aiming at man, come on, don't beat about the bush? Because they without exception want to get to or at the Fourth Commandment. They really don't have any interest in those odd laws like Bound has referred to; they try to derogate the Sabbath.
Their apporach is dishonest, and that to me, is enough reason to disregard them and their effort with deserved scorn.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Hi Claudia_T,

According to the Bible, Christians gathered on Sundays from the very beginning of the Church. "And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight." (Acts 20:7). Elsewhere, the Apostle Paul told the Christians in Corinth to give money to the Church on Sundays (1 Cor. 16:1-2) -- a command which would have been rather hard to fulfill if the community only met on the Sabbath!

(By the way, the earliest Pagan references to Christian practices unanimously indicate that Christians assembled on Sunday morning for a Eucharistic service, cf. Pliny's Letter to Trajan circa 110 AD; Celsus's polemic against the Christians, etc.)

With regard to the observance of Mosaic Law:

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ." (Colossians 2:16-17)

Please give this further thought.

Be Well.

GE:

"...And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them..."
GE:
This illustrates and confirms the lengths Sundaypropagandists go to further their heretic views - they have NO respect or fear to tamper with the Word of God.
How so:
One: They disciples did NOT come together upon the First Day - "they were together still on the First Day after they earlier had assembled" - That's what the Word says. So they had come together on the day before, the Sabbath!
Two:
Paul didn't "preach" - he "discussed matters" (of their itinenary).
etc. (space and time short now)

Three: Then 'give this further thought, dear Bound,
"the sabbath days: Which ARE a spectre of things a-coming, EVEN the body of Christ's own." "Don not let yourselves be judged by any of the world for feasting these very Sabbaths", o Christian man! Why? BECAUSE "He has triumphed in it ..." His resurrection from the dead, verses 12 to 15!

 

[Claudia_T]

I always ask anti-Old Testament people this question: What are you actually aiming at man, come on, don't beat about the bush? Because they without exception want to get to or at the Fourth Commandment. They really don't have any interest in those odd laws like Bound has referred to; they try to derogate the Sabbath.
Their apporach is dishonest, and that to me, is enough reason to disregard them and their effort with deserved scorn.

BEST thing you've ever said. :applause:

 

[BobRyan]

Hi Claudia_T,

I don't have an issue with your desire to be without sin. I have a problem with you defining sin as a failure to observe jew laws which have been sublated by our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

This is the real difference here. Slicing up the Word of God between "the Word of Jews" and "The Word of God".

If we can get that one solved all the other problems solve themselves.

In mark 2:27 "The Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND not mankind MADE for the Sabbath".

in Is 66 "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship"

In Gen 2 LONG BEFORE any Jew exists God BLESSED the Seventh-day and made it holy.

In Eph 6:1-4 HONOR your Father and mother - "which is the FIRST commandment with a promise" speaking of the Ten Commandments.

in James 2 and in the Gospels we see Lev 19:18 and Deut 6:5 quoted authorotatively as the ROYAL LAW binding upon all Christians.

The slicing up of God's Word between "Jews LAW" and "God's Law" simply does not work.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

The point being -- that even those who would prefer to draw your conclusions can not go for the story telling you are doing in Matt 15, Mark 7, Rom 14, 1Cor 8 etc.

here is "the point". These commentaries are on your side in wanting to get the world to ignore God's restrictions against eating rats just as you state.

but they can not go along with you in the lengths of the contrived stories you are telling from Mark 7, Matt 15 and Romans 14. In Romans 14 even THEY admit that this is about meat offerred to idols.

In Mark 7 and Matt 15 even THEY admit that this is NOT about teaching the Jews PRECROSS to eat rats and cats -- it is about the man-made-tradition of INVENTING stories about sin sticking to your hands and then getting onto the FOOD - (Wheat in this case) that you eat - and thus you getting "sin inside you" via this superstitious non-biblical method.

NEVER do these commentaries go to your lengths of story telling - claiming that God's Word -- Lev 11 is "Man made tradition to be ignored".

My argument is that your story telling is soooo extreme - so contrived, so outside the realm of exegesis that EVEN commentaries that SHARE your view of the rats - can not go along with you in the areas where you have chosen to invent a case for your view!

And THAT sir is "instructive" for the reader.

I also note that in Act 10 we do NOT see Peter saying "LORD LORD I am so used to eating beef steaK AND MUTTON AND VEAL THAT I just can't eat rats and cats no matter how hard I try - please forgive me just this once as I am not able to pick up that rat and eat it".

RATHER Peter says "OH NO Lord for I HAVE NEVER eaten RATS" -- nor will he ever do it -- in accordance to your word in Lev 11. THEN Peter tells us THREE TIMES that the lessons "CALL NO MAN unclean" -- not ONCE does he add "AND by the way eat less beef steak and more rats to show that you accept Gentiles".

Not once!!

And yet there are today Christians such as yourself that will argue this point of "eat less beef steak and more rats" simply because you feel it is too restrictive on your freedom to submit to God's Word in Lev 11 about not eating rats and cats!

Astounding sir - absolutely astounding!!

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Hi Claudia_T,
Could you address my comments in my pervious posts regarding women menstruation? Do you consider that it makes them ritually unclean? Are they allow in the Sabbath Worship Services?

Do you stone Adulterers? What is the punishment for failure to observe kosher laws?

Be well.

In the OT God gave civil laws for governing the Theocracy
He gave ceremonial laws pointing forward to the Messiah
He gave health laws for mankind
He gave moral laws for mankind

Because the PRECROSS statement of God is "God so loved the WORLD that HE GAVE..."

This ONE GOSPEL - ONE BIBLE - view of God's Word and salvation is new to many - but it IS the view that we hold.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Yes Bob, thanks for your illustration. If this thread is being read world-wide you have just offended entire cultures of peoples. There are cultures that eat both cats and dogs. They also consider them as delicacies, as the French would, frog's legs, and the Russians, fish eggs--caviar. Right now plenty of people eat insects of all kinds

I never claimed that Lev 11 was given by God as a way of "pleasing the traditions of men who seek to eat rats".

Your comment is that by simply admitting to and honoring the part of God's Word that declares "rats are not food for people" - that this is offensive to those rat-and-cat eating groups around the world.

I do not argue against that statement of your. I don't doubt that there are those that would prefer that God not infringe on their liberty to eat those rats cats and puppies.

Bound was kind enough to point out that though we are not comfortable with that form of gross abuse of the human system - others are and we should simply turn a blind eye to Lev 11 EVEN when God's command "seems to make sense" to us westerners.

(or something like that)

You know - like you just did.

DHK said -
Just because certain animals don't appeal to you, doesn't mean they don't appeal to others and that others don't eat them. That is illogical, and called a sweeping generalization--an illogical fallacy

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

.. You are arguing from your emotions instead of from truth.
The truth is that God has made all creatures good and nothing to be refused: whether or not they be pigs, cats or dogs. All of them are good to eat.

Your argument a that rats dogs and kittens are "good to eat" has been my point all along. People are whining about Lev 11 telling us that these are "not food" - and they feel that God is too restrictive if we let Him tell us "THESE ARE NOT FOOD" for humans.

I point out that Isaiah 66 points to the burning judgment awaiting those who "eat mice and destible things".

Your argument is that we should NOT listen to God on this point because as Christians we are free to transgress His Commands.

I simply point out - that I don't agree with that position.

I point out that those who complain about being restricted from eating more rats and cats - are taking a limited view of the Gospel that does not stand up to the test of scripture. The Creator is telling mankind to eat beef steak lamb and deer - but not rats, cats dogs and bats. You argue that He is wrong to declare that those rats "are not FOOD" for us. I simply point out that no text of scripture supports your view.

I point out that EVEN in Act 10 where you are pointing this conversation Peter gives the dream's interpretation three times and NEVER (not even ONCE) says "SO EAT MORE RATS to show that you are a Christian". When Paul confronts Peter for eating with Gentiles and then withdrawing from Gentiles when Jewish leaders come around Peter DOES NOT proudly retort "OH NO Paul I have NEVER ceased to be duplicitous on this point". Because he is being directed to a point of failure. But when GOD points out the command to eat rats Peter DOES insist in ALL ACCOUNTS "OH NO Lord for nothing unclean HAS EVER been eaten by me" KNOWING that HONOR for the Word of God is ALWAYS the right course. And so when Peter EXPLAINS the vision those THREE TIMES - he ALWAYS points the reader to the LESSON as "Call no MAN unclean" AND NEVER points the reader to "EAT Rats cats and dogs to show you really understand the Gospel". No - not even ONCE.

In Christ,

Bob