sheep and goats

Not at all.

 

Well whatever eternal life Jesus is speaking about in this passage is based on how they treated the least of the brethren. This is yet another clear reason to keep it separate from the free gift of eternal salvation which is based solely on believing on Christ and has nothing whatsoever to do with how we treat the brethren.

If you insist on placing the separation at the end of the kingdom, what kingdom do you suppose they are inheritting? Christ no longer holds the kingdom after the thousand years.

1 Corinthians 15:24-25
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

 

Ok then, i might see life maybe the same as you then, but everlasting life an eternal life would be the same to me. I could see like a tapping into it here time. Kinda like having eternal salvation and ejoying that salvation here in time. But any how in Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

I look at the above scriptures to be here time. Few there be that find it. I look at as christians walking upright before God and the other being Christians deceived or not walking upright per say. In revelation John saw a number no man can number. I believe the elect will be as the stars of heaven, sands of the shore, and the dust of the earth.

one more question for ya. Are you a "pre", "post", or "a" on the millennial?

 

Definitely pre-millennial.

 

I guess i got lost on what this whole debate is on now.

 

Couldn't this be the kingdom John saw in revelations (New Jerusalem) and Christ spoke of in Luke 17:21

 

Sister Helen has "Hit the Bullseye" again

Blackbird's keen observation

Sheep must be sheered of their wool-----Baa, Baa Black Sheep! Have you any wool??? Yes Sir, Yes Sir, Three bags full!!!

Goats have no wool

In the Biblical analogy-----

Jesus Christ is the Great Shepherd of the Sheep

Nowhere does the Bible say He is the Shepherd of the Goats

Therefore for the Goat to be saved---he must be adopted into the sheep family

 

To correct someone's post...genetically speaking...sheep are different from goats! THey are a different KIND of animal.

I guess I am not sure where the verse is, but "Jesus laid down His life for the goats and the sheep."

Some try to overcomplicate what God is saying in order to fit into their system. Just read it for what it says....when Christ comes back, He will separate the sheep from the goats (the saved from the lost) and send them on their ETERNAL homes (heaven and hell). When you always have to try and fit a literal 1000 yr earthly kingdom into the picture, you must chop at the scripture and make it fit. So many passages are misinterpreted because of people trying to conform them to their system.

 

[sarcasm]

Scripture says "a dog returns to its vomit", which is most commonly interpreted to mean an unregenerate person will go back to his/her old ways, even if they seem to depart from them for a while.

But my dog was so cute and cuddly, I can't imagine that scripture actually means to paint dogs as unregenerate. I guess I'll have to reinterpret scripture according to how cute my dog was.

[/sarcasm]

 

James,
Here are three quotes from you:
____________________________________________________________
“As I said above, you and I must earn the right to inherit the kingdom. It is a reward for obedience and suffering for Christ. I don't know where the bible says our destiny is to serve God in heaven either. Let’s look again at what these "sheep nations" are being rewarded for”.

“There is no reason why a believer may not experience hell and still be eternally saved at the great white throne”.

“Well whatever eternal life Jesus is speaking about in this passage is based on how they treated the least of the brethren. This is yet another clear reason to keep it separate from the free gift of eternal salvation which is based solely on believing on Christ and has nothing whatsoever to do with how we treat the brethren.
_____________________________________________________________
My Response:

How can you have a work's “criteria” for receiving eternal life based on how people treat the brethren of Jesus during this present Age?

You admit above that Jesus is speaking of eternal life as a REWARD; not as a free gift! You present a dual condition during this Age for eternal life of Believers and sheep nations!! One for Believers which is not always “without end” (if they go to Hell during the Millennium) and one for Sheep Nations based on works performed during this present Age!!!

The condition for receiving "eternal life" (for the Sheep alone) is that of how men treat the least of Jesus' brethren while He "sits on His throne"! Matt.24:31.

The source for “serving God in heaven” is Rev.22:3. That is the destiny for ALL Believers and of none of the Sheep! Sheep Nations are not members of the Lamb’s Bride but “inherit the earthly Kingdom” while the Bride of the Lamb will “dwell forever in the New Jerusalem”!! The Kings from the Nations will not “inhabit the New Jerusalem”; but must “bring their glory and honor and enter it at any time to be healed by te leaves of the Tree of Life”!!! Rev.21:24-26; Rev.22:2,14.

Are you still claiming some Believers may be sent to Hell during the Millennium while Satan suffers in the Abyss? Are you still arguing that “eternal” doesn’t mean “without end” in the case of Believers who are sent to Hell during the Millennium?? Even though you finally admit Believers who suffer in Hell will be “eternally saved at the great white throne judgment”, is not your view one of salvation by works during this Age…both for Sheep Nations and for Believers who may suffer Hell for
1000 years???

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

I'm presenting a dual eternal life. One is for unbelievers, it is a free gift if you believe, and it is recieved on the last day. One is for believers and it is a reward. A free gift is not a reward. Just because these things are both referred to as eternal life doesn't mean they are the same thing. As a believer you have eternal life and nothing will take that away. But that doesn't automatically get you the reward. Inheritting eternal life during the kingdom age is conditional.

Then I ask again, what are Christ's brethren doing in prison while He is on the throne?

New Jerusalem is on the earth.

Revelation 21:2-3
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

If by 'heaven' you mean the eternal age after the great white throne, fine. If you mean the place up above the 2nd heaven, I don't see that in scripture. As for who will inhabit the city, I would presume it will be those who reigned with Him during the millennial age. But I won't be dogmatic about it. But the earth it appears will be filled with the 'nations of the saved'. Saved people, not unsaved people.

Salvation into the kingdom is by faith and works, a reward. Salvation at the great white throne is by faith alone, and no amount of sin will cancel that free gift.

 

James,
I wrote:
The condition for receiving "eternal life" (for the Sheep alone) is that of how men treat the least of Jesus' brethren while He "sits on His throne"! Matt.24:31.
Your Response: Then I ask again, what are Christ's brethren doing in prison while He is on the throne?
______________________________________________________
My Reply:
With this question you have forced me to modify my explanation regarding the original subjects of the Millennial Kingdom! But it will not immediately become an earthly Kingdom separate from the New Jerusalem!! Its final subjects will be determined at the End of the Millennial Reign of Christ after He separates the Goat Nations, subduing all enemies, and subjects Himself to God!!! I Cor.15:24-28.

Those who “sit on thrones” in the Kingdom are Believers who “overcome to the End”! Rev.2:25-27. Those who “enter the Kingdom also includes unbelievers who are “left behind of the nations that come against Jerusalem” at the end of this Age”!! Zech.14:16. These former “unbelievers” will be composed of sheep and goats; the sheep sincerely “beg to escape and to stand before the Son of Man" (Luke 21:36) and the goats “are willing to die” (among the Twosomes that are left behind)…but only because they wish to be “kept alive”!!! Luke 17:30-33.

The sheep and their offspring will continue to sincerely worship God! But the goats will outwardly worship God only to “receive rain for their crops”!! They and their offspring will finally produce the Goat Nations to be separated from the Sheep Nations at the end of “the Age to Come”…for then and only then will the goats be cast into Hell and join the Beast and False Prophet AND Satan who will also be cast into Hell at the End of the Millennium!!! Rev.19:20; Rev.20:3,10.

This does not mean Believers who fail to “overcome to the End” will “suffer in hell” for 1000 years as you propose! They will not “sit on thrones” to rule with Christ for 1000 years!! But they will still be members of the Bride of the Lamb and will “dwell forever in the New Jerusalem” while Kings of the Sheep Nations “inherit the eternal Kingdom” on earth and enter the New Jerusalem at any time thereafter…for the City is the “Bride of the Lamb” and God will only “dwell with the Body of Christ and be served by them for eternity”!!! Rev.21:2,9; Rev.22:3.

I would modify your closing statement by inserting words in parenthesis:

"Salvation (entrance) into the kingdom is by faith (reward to Believers) and by works (for those left behind having begged to escape or to be kept alive; because of their good treatment of Christ's brethren), a reward (for unbelievers who qualify). Salvation (continuance of eternal life) at the great white throne is by faith alone (for Saints) and no amount of sin will cancel that free gift" (but the New Jerusalem is still the eternal home of the Bride alone and inheritance is based on faith alone; while those who inherit the earthly kingdom "go into eternal life" and dwell on the earth forever because of their and their offsprings' true worship of God)".
Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

James and Friends,

I must now support your view that the Sheep Nations do begin to “inherit the earthly Kingdom” at the start of Christ’s Reign! This fact is determined by their treatment of Christ’s brethren before the Millennium begins!! It is verified by His use of the Aorist Imperative: “Inherit ye the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world”!!! Matt.25:32-34.

The issue we were discussing concerns the “timing” for Sheep and Goat Nations to “go into eternal judgment or eternal life”! This occurs at the End of the Millennium by involving a change from "one state of existing side by side to their separate eternal destinations by His use of the Future Indicative (Strong’s #565; Matt. 25:46)!! Eternal possession by saved nations of the earthly kingdom (Rev.21:24-26) awaits the New Heaven and Earth where eternal “separation” of Sheep and Goats begins at the same time the Bride of the Lamb “shall inherit (Future Indicative) the New Jerusalem forever”!!! Rev.21:7. [Only at the great white throne will unrighteous people and nations be judged and sent to Hell].

Thanks, James, for hanging in there until this distinction could be made clear in my own remarks! I was “hung up” on the necessity to maintain eternal salvation by faith alone (for the Bride of Christ) as opposed to the reward to Believers and to those “left behind” of reigning over the earthly Kingdom!! The latter are Jews who “mourn and beg to escape and prevail to stand before the Son of Man” AND/OR those “left of the Nations who are kept alive among every Twosome if they are willing to die”!!! Luke 21:36; Luke 17:30-33; Joel 2:32; Rom.11:25-27; Zech.14:16; Rev.15:4.

Only the righteous are “left behind to reign over the goat nations in the Earthly Kingdom until they go into eternal life or into the New Jerusalem”; but only those born again prior to Christ’s “Arrival” as King (#2240; Rev.2:25-27) possess eternal life as a result of their faith alone! And only those of His Bride who “overcome to the End” will sit on earthly thrones for 1000 years (Future Indicative) while waiting to inherit the New Jerusalem!! But Martyrs will “serve God as Pillars in the Temple of Heaven day and night and the Lamb will feed them and shepherd them and lead them into living fountains of water” (Future Indicative) for 1000 years until the New Jerusalem comes down over a New Earth!!! Rev.3:11-12; Rev.7:14-17; Rev.20:4-6.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

Yep I have seen this before. The two salvations theory. I wish I could remember the site I seen it on. Maybe one of these fellas that hold to this theory could point me to one.

Believers burn in hell for a thousand years. John 3:16 is not speaking to eternal salvation. And many more theories. You would be better of to study the ideology as a whole before you get into a discussion with these guys. If I can find one of the sites I will post it.