Sheri Klouda PhD vs. SWBTS, Paige Patterson

[donnA]

Why are folks so quick to point out the don't sue another Christian scripture and forget the whole don't lie to anyone scripture.

so if someone lies to you it is ok to sue them?

 

[preachinjesus]

Since she was given two years notice, no hardship has been created. She has not been wronged and the court sustem has a different value system to which she is applying to. Scripture discriminates in way the secular courts would not approve of. So now she is asking the courts to hold the school up to secular standards and not biblical ones. That is hypocracy.

For the record, you're continuing to be disingenious with your positions here and this point. She was notified that her tenure petition would be held up but never told of her dismissal. There was still the prospect of employment.

(I don't really expect an exact reply since in the other thread you've demonstrated that you don't want to confront the major issues.)

The reality is a seminary isn't a church and shouldn't be considered one. There was no lapse in hiring...but supreme lapse in firing her.

 

[gb93433]

whered does scriture give the right to take church business before secular courts?

Who did the church business? When was the matter dealt with in the SBC courts?They are nearly the same trustees who hired Klouda who also hired Patterson. Would you trust men who have such wavering theology acting like chameleons. Doesn't that say a lot about what kind of men are in leadership?

 

[gb93433]

so if someone lies to you it is ok to sue them?

Let me give you a true life scenario that happens in the real world. It happened to a friend of mine when he was in seminary.

A friend of mine was hurt on a job bad enough to be sent to the hospital. By law the man he was working for was supposed to have workmans compensation but did not. My friend did not klnow this until he was told the man did not have the required insurance and that he would have to pay the bill.

So you are my friend the seminary student what would you do?

 

[gb93433]

So is this thread about her dismissal or about the $150,000 ? Because in the op it is about the dismissal of a professor.

It shows the contrast in where their heart is.

If they had done the right thing it would have never been an issue. However they did spend $150,000 of SBC money on an addition to house the president's books and trophy animals while he stated that the seminary needed money and gave her nothing. Is that doing the right thing? Is that what a godly leader would do? It simply shows his heart. It shows his leadership. Jesus taught about what characterizes a leader. The first must be last. . . Does he qualify?

The trustees did wrong and called it a slip in judgment. However they did nothing to make sure she was compensated for any damages and to help her out. It shows the heart of the SBC leadership in this case.

Is that how much the SBC cares for its people?

This issue about a professor being dismissed is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to ethics in the SBC.

 

[go2church]

so if someone lies to you it is ok to sue them?

No, but why is she the one being "reminded" about what the Bible says and the men are not?

 

[go2church]

[Edited out veiled cursing.]
Now is that a nice thing for a christian to do?

Being sarcastic, commenting on the post that said she thought she was being money hungry. Context, context, context

[Moderator Warning: Being sarcastic does not give you the right to violate BB posting rules and the BB user agreement. I strongly suggest that you re-read the both the BB Posting Rules and the BB User Agreemnt. Continued posting of veiled cursing and/or cursing via acronym may result in your membership being banned.]

 

[Steven2006]

I have a question on the lawsuit issue, First I will say that I am really against lawsuits. I was even advised once to sue a hospital and doctors for something that was done to me in error. But I looked at it as they were trying to good by me, and I felt it went against my convictions. My question however is this, does that scripture apply to institutions and corporations, or is it intended for just an individual? And if it does only apply to just an individual, she really wouldn't be going against scripture. I mean it's not something I would do, but I am not so sure we can judge her in regard to that verse.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Whether we like to admit it or not here is how the sides are split. Conservative v. Liberal. It is the sme battle that has gone on for years. This is just one more subject between the two.

Here we go!

All of you who support Dr. Klouda have just been branded "liberal." Welcome to the club. There have been many who have gone before you who have also been unfairly branded.

Apparently the true "conservative" position supports Paige Patterson.

 

[gb93433]

Here we go!

All of you who support Dr. Klouda have just been branded "liberal." Welcome to the club. There have been many who have gone before you who have also been unfairly branded.

Apparently the true "conservative" position supports Paige Patterson.

You mean that kind of love that Jesus talked about in a love that lasts.

Could it be that the SBC doesn't have enough money now that they made an addition to Patterson's home to house his trophy animals, and books to be able to admit their mistake and help Klouda out.

I am confident that admitting a mistake means they are afraid of lawyers and what may come their way. Just like when the trustees were afraid of the press when they fired Dlday so they lied. Is that the kind of conservative theology we want in our leaders?

 

[donnA]

Let me give you a true life scenario that happens in the real world. It happened to a friend of mine when he was in seminary.

A friend of mine was hurt on a job bad enough to be sent to the hospital. By law the man he was working for was supposed to have workmans compensation but did not. My friend did not klnow this until he was told the man did not have the required insurance and that he would have to pay the bill.

So you are my friend the seminary student what would you do?

Not the samething as her loosing a job. Apparently she is highly qualified and highly emplyable since she si now employed.
Scripture has to be for the real world, or not at all.

 

[donnA]

It shows the contrast in where their heart is.

If they had done the right thing it would have never been an issue. However they did spend $150,000 of SBC money on an addition to house the president's books and trophy animals while he stated that the seminary needed money and gave her nothing. Is that doing the right thing? Is that what a rgodsly leader would do? It simply shows his heart. It shows his leadership. Jesus taught about what characterizes a leader. The first must be last. . . Does he qualify?

The trustees did wrong and called it a slip in judgment. However they did nothing to make sure she was compensated for any damages and to help her out. It shows the heart of the SBC leadership in this case.

Is that how much the SBC cares for its people?

This issue about a professor being dismissed is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to ethics in the SBC.

Is it his house, or the seminary's house? Makes a difference, if it is the seminarie's then they made improvemnts(and increased value) on a house they own.

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

For the record, you're continuing to be disingenious with your positions here and this point. She was notified that her tenure petition would be held up but never told of her dismissal. There was still the prospect of employment.

(I don't really expect an exact reply since in the other thread you've demonstrated that you don't want to confront the major issues.)

The reality is a seminary isn't a church and shouldn't be considered one. There was no lapse in hiring...but supreme lapse in firing her.

Since I have provided an outside source and you have not the disingenious is on your part.

 

[donnA]

No, but why is she the one being "reminded" about what the Bible says and the men are not?

I think that has already happened here hasn't it. each person is responsable for themselves, theres no 'but' too it.

 

[donnA]

Here we go!

All of you who support Dr. Klouda have just been branded "liberal." Welcome to the club. There have been many who have gone before you who have also been unfairly branded.

Apparently the true "conservative" position supports Paige Patterson.

I don't know anything more about the issue that what keeps getting posted here on the BB, but to me, the conservative side is on the side of scripture. Women don't teach men, and christians don't sue each other.

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

Here we go!

All of you who support Dr. Klouda have just been branded "liberal." Welcome to the club. There have been many who have gone before you who have also been unfairly branded.

Apparently the true "conservative" position supports Paige Patterson.

The view that supports women professors is liberal not conservative. The view that supports suing other christians is liberal and not conservative. And Dr. Patterson is a true conservative.

I am confident that admitting a mistake means they are afraid of lawyers and what may come their way. Just like when the trustees were afraid of the press when they fired Dlday so they lied. Is that the kind of conservative theology we want in our leaders?

A mistake has already been admitted to. The mistake was in placing her in that position in the first place. And now it has been rectified with fairness.

 

[rbell]

The view that supports women professors is liberal not conservative. The view that supports suing other christians is liberal and not conservative. And Dr. Patterson is a true conservative.

I've not waded into this discussion too much, and I probably won't.

But I have a problem with the last sentence.

Women profs is an issue of debate. The ethics of Klouda suing is an issue of debate.

The last sentence, however, IMO elevates someone above discussion. Dr. Patterson becomes untouchable, because he is......conservative.

I'm really, really, really scared of hero worship. And when a figure...of ANY theological bent...is held above the possibility of reproach, then a few things happen:

• They become the central issue regarding everything.
• No fruitful discussion is possible.
• Every issue becomes a referendum on said person.

I'm already seeing that with Patterson. Without divulging a confidence, I must admit I'm fighting my attitude here anyway, because of how he treated a close friend of mine (different situation). Because of his actions, my friend was hurt deeply, and has had a difficult time (that's enough of that...I must keep that confidence).

Please understand, 2 Timothy, I'm not trying in any way to accuse you of worshipping Patterson. I'm just hypersensitive to the possibility of others doing so. In my life, I've met conservative idiots, conservative jerks, conservative criminals, and the like. One's publicly spoken theological stances does not mean one is capable to lead a seminary or a convention. I would say all of the pastors I've served under were quite conservative theologically. But a couple of them did not effectively lead their churches.

If anyone wants to see what hero worship plus a polarizing figure adds up to, look at all the fighting that takes place over the late Jack Hyles and his church in Hammond, Indiana.

I don't want that in the SBC.

 

[Bible-boy]

This thread is being closed so the BB Admin Council can review some of the language being used.

 

[gb93433]

Niether does she need to be in authority training Baptist Pastors.

What about the women who are profesors in the religious education and music departments? They do train future pastors. All M.Div. students take religious education classes and a music class.

 

[donnA]

Who says? Show me from scripture where a woman isn't allowed to teach a man who will eventually become a pastor and show me how merely teaching construes spritual authority.

i would think the vereses about women not teachingmen would apply, and a professor has authority over men, she happens to be teaching men about scripture.