Easy to say, but do you have proof?
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Shooting on Texas College Campus
- Thread starter Don
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Easy to say, but do you have proof?
Yeah. How about the Daily Mail, one of England's largest news paper.
And it is not something new. The 2001 study hardly differs at all from the 2009 study.
Violent crime worse in Britain than in US | Daily Mail Online
UK is violent crime capital of Europe
5,100, including those killed by police in the line of duty.
There are 30,000 gun related deaths per year by firearms, and this number is not disputed. U.S. population 324,059,091 as of Wednesday, June 22, 2016. Do the math: 0.000000925% of the population dies from gun related actions each year. Statistically speaking, this is insignificant!
What is never told, however, is a breakdown of those 30,000 deaths, to put them in perspective as compared to other causes of death:
• 65% of those deaths are by suicide which would never be prevented by gun laws
• 15% are by law enforcement in the line of duty and justified
• 17% are through criminal activity, gang and drug related or mentally ill persons – gun violence
• 3% are accidental discharge deaths
So, "gun violence" is not 30,000 annually, but drops to 5,100. Still too many? Well, first, how are those deaths spanned across the nation?
• 480 homicides (9.4%) were in Chicago
• 344 homicides (6.7%) were in Baltimore
• 333 homicides (6.5%) were in Detroit
• 119 homicides (2.3%) were in Washington D.C. (a 54% increase over prior years)
So, 25% of all gun crime happens in just 4 cities. All 4 of those cities have strict gun laws, so it is not the lack of law that is the root cause.
This leaves 3,825 for the entire rest of the nation, or about 75 deaths per state. That is an average because some States have much higher rates than others. For example, California had 1,169 and Alabama had 1.
Now, who has the strictest gun laws by far? California, of course, but understand, it is not guns causing this. It is a crime rate spawned by the number of criminal persons residing in those cities and states. So if all cities and states are not created equally, then there must be something other than the tool causing the gun deaths.
Are 5,100 deaths per year horrific? How about in comparison to other deaths? All death is sad and especially so when it is in the commission of a crime but that is the nature of crime. Robbery, death, rape, assault all is done by criminals and thinking that criminals will obey laws is ludicrous. That's why they are criminals.
But what about other deaths each year?
• 40,000+ die from a drug overdose–THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR THAT!
• 36,000 people die per year from the flu, far exceeding the criminal gun deaths
• 34,000 people die per year in traffic fatalities(exceeding gun deaths even if you include suicide)
Now it gets good:
• 200,000+ people die each year (and growing) from preventable medical errors. You are safer in Chicago than when you are in a hospital!
• 710,000 people die per year from heart disease. It’s time to stop the double cheeseburgers! So what is the point? If we focused attention on heart disease, even a 10% decrease in cardiac deaths would save twice the number of lives annually of all gun-related deaths (including suicide, law enforcement, etc.). A 10% reduction in medical errors would be 66% of the total gun deaths or 4 times the number of criminal homicides......Simple, easily preventable - 10% reductions!
So you have to ask yourself, in the grand scheme of things, why the focus on guns? It's pretty simple:
Taking away guns gives control to governments.
The founders of this nation knew that regardless of the form of government, those in power may become corrupt and seek to rule as the British did by trying to disarm the populace of the colonies. It is not difficult to understand that a disarmed populace is a controlled populace.
Thus, the second amendment was proudly and boldly included in the U.S. Constitution. It, like our liberty, must be preserved at all costs.
So the next time someone tries to tell you that gun control is about saving lives, look at these facts and remember these words from Noah Webster: "Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword, because the whole body of the people are armed and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States. A military force at the command of Congress can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power."
Ted Nugent
What is never told, however, is a breakdown of those 30,000 deaths, to put them in perspective as compared to other causes of death:
• 65% of those deaths are by suicide which would never be prevented by gun laws
• 15% are by law enforcement in the line of duty and justified
• 17% are through criminal activity, gang and drug related or mentally ill persons – gun violence
• 3% are accidental discharge deaths
So, "gun violence" is not 30,000 annually, but drops to 5,100. Still too many? Well, first, how are those deaths spanned across the nation?
• 480 homicides (9.4%) were in Chicago
• 344 homicides (6.7%) were in Baltimore
• 333 homicides (6.5%) were in Detroit
• 119 homicides (2.3%) were in Washington D.C. (a 54% increase over prior years)
So, 25% of all gun crime happens in just 4 cities. All 4 of those cities have strict gun laws, so it is not the lack of law that is the root cause.
This leaves 3,825 for the entire rest of the nation, or about 75 deaths per state. That is an average because some States have much higher rates than others. For example, California had 1,169 and Alabama had 1.
Now, who has the strictest gun laws by far? California, of course, but understand, it is not guns causing this. It is a crime rate spawned by the number of criminal persons residing in those cities and states. So if all cities and states are not created equally, then there must be something other than the tool causing the gun deaths.
Are 5,100 deaths per year horrific? How about in comparison to other deaths? All death is sad and especially so when it is in the commission of a crime but that is the nature of crime. Robbery, death, rape, assault all is done by criminals and thinking that criminals will obey laws is ludicrous. That's why they are criminals.
But what about other deaths each year?
• 40,000+ die from a drug overdose–THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR THAT!
• 36,000 people die per year from the flu, far exceeding the criminal gun deaths
• 34,000 people die per year in traffic fatalities(exceeding gun deaths even if you include suicide)
Now it gets good:
• 200,000+ people die each year (and growing) from preventable medical errors. You are safer in Chicago than when you are in a hospital!
• 710,000 people die per year from heart disease. It’s time to stop the double cheeseburgers! So what is the point? If we focused attention on heart disease, even a 10% decrease in cardiac deaths would save twice the number of lives annually of all gun-related deaths (including suicide, law enforcement, etc.). A 10% reduction in medical errors would be 66% of the total gun deaths or 4 times the number of criminal homicides......Simple, easily preventable - 10% reductions!
So you have to ask yourself, in the grand scheme of things, why the focus on guns? It's pretty simple:
Taking away guns gives control to governments.
The founders of this nation knew that regardless of the form of government, those in power may become corrupt and seek to rule as the British did by trying to disarm the populace of the colonies. It is not difficult to understand that a disarmed populace is a controlled populace.
Thus, the second amendment was proudly and boldly included in the U.S. Constitution. It, like our liberty, must be preserved at all costs.
So the next time someone tries to tell you that gun control is about saving lives, look at these facts and remember these words from Noah Webster: "Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword, because the whole body of the people are armed and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States. A military force at the command of Congress can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power."
Ted Nugent
LowOiL
Active Member
But all those men in movies facing off face to face with blazing guns in a shootout.....
NOT ONE Reported case of that happening in real life, not one.
For the most part women were highly regarded with honor and respect and violence was rare and swiftly punished.
I guess that didn't sell as many dime books as the fabricated versions that came out later.
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LowOiL
Active Member
That post was presented to BamaCarry (Alabama gun rights group) and found funny and misleading... One Alabama death... well lets just say that wasn't true. I am not sure where it originated and love you TC, but I mark that one as "not everything you see on the internet" is true category.
LowOiL
Active Member
I think it is funny when comparing violence US vs the UK, often how a lot of people forget just how freaking small the WHOLE UK is compared the USA. We stateside have 11 states larger than the whole UK. Yep 11 states.
Heck Alaska can swallow up over 6 UKs by itself.
That leaves a lot of room for a lot more things to go down. Things that get reported as if the UK and the USA were basically the same size. It just doesn't work that way.
Heck Alaska can swallow up over 6 UKs by itself.
That leaves a lot of room for a lot more things to go down. Things that get reported as if the UK and the USA were basically the same size. It just doesn't work that way.
Actually, isn't the answer: "No one was killed by a gun"? They were killed by someone using a gun.
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jan/21/england-wales-homicides-rise-knife-gun-crime
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Good point.
Population of Great Britain: 65.64 million.
Population of America: 323.1 million.
This is a very famous myth which was debunked years ago.
. Britain counts more crimes as being 'violent' than does the USA.
https://www.quora.com/Does-the-Unit...rate-four-times-higher-than-the-United-States
Once again, let me repeat that Britain is not a more virtuous place than America-- far from it! But it's as well to have one's facts straight.
I cited the author.
Yes, do the math, and get it right.
Take it up with the author.Yes, do the math, and get it right.
Yes America is renown for her gun violence just watch a few of the multitude of her movies
IMDb: Best Bloody Violent Films - a list by kwills16
No wonder we turn a deaf ear to the Hollywood moguls pontificating from atop their anti-gun soap boxes!
HankD
IMDb: Best Bloody Violent Films - a list by kwills16
No wonder we turn a deaf ear to the Hollywood moguls pontificating from atop their anti-gun soap boxes!
HankD
You are the author of that erroneous sum. Do it again and get it right. You are misleading your readers.
With reference to the Daily Mail article of 16 years ago, it was what your glorious leader would call fake news. I have given a link to a correction.
Nope. Wrong again. Take it up with the author.
Ya know, Hank, if anyone's ever seen the Japanese film Battle Royale, or a Korean horror film (yes, I'm one of those types that doesn't mind sub-titles; but because I'm half-deaf, I keep the closed-captioning on for *all* programs, not just foreign ones) -- well, they might take a step back....
Battle Royale, which some people think influenced "Hunger Games," makes Hunger Games look pretty tame....
So far as I can see you are the author, but even if you aren't you are the one who put the figure on this forum.
It is wrong by a factor of about a hundred thousand. "Do the math."
But even if it wasn't, it's good to know that if someone in your church lost a son or a husband to gun crime you would wrap a comforting arm around her and say, "Never mind! He wasn't statistically significant." Then you could go off with a clear conscience and play with your "toys."
This is the kind of garbage posting on this forum that keeps things so hostile around here. Its childish, unnecessary, and posted out of pure emotionalism. It has no place in legitimate discussions among Christians or anywhere else.
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