Lets say anointed one means anyone chosen and equipped for an office or task. If we say Anointed One, that implies a title of our Lord and Savior, Jesus. If the original inspired words said anointed one, referring to Jesus, should we translate it with one of the title's connotations? Or should we present the concept in code and force the reader to learn the jargon of the past?
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Should Χριστος be translated "Messiah" or transliterated "Christ" in the NT?
- Thread starter Greektim
- Start date
Well I can agree with that. Lets see, they do not know what Christ or Messiah means, but they would know what Anointed One means, somebody chosen for some task. Oh I know how about Jesus Anointed One or Jesus the Anointed. That would naturally ask the question, who anointed Him and with what was He anointed. It sure looks to me like those who oppose anointed have their heads buried in the past.
Greektim
Well-Known Member
I see how changed tactics. Interesting. Instead of arguing that literal (for you means denotative) meaning, you now are arguing for the more familiar term?
Translators deal w/ issues like this a lot. Words for animals that certain people groups have no knowledge of (or even a word for) are a dilemma for Bible translators. Do they use a familiar term that is perhaps similar yet very different from the actual animal? Or should they create a word for the animal, explain in a footnote or similar what that animal is, and etc? Example, what if the phrase "Behold, the Lamb of God..." were substituted for another animal, has something been lost in the significance to Jesus as the paschal lamb (even if a different animal was used for passover as well)?
I see the value in both, but I'm just not sure we want to contextualize important things like the major ministry of Jesus as Messiah. After all, of the confessions we have of the apostles in the NT, all but one that I have found (not that I have looked extensively for this) refer to Jesus as the Messiah as the centerpiece of their confession (Thomas' confession in Jn 20:28 being the exception but could still be understood messianically). And depending on how you interpret Matt. 16:18, Peter's confession that Jesus is Messiah may very well be the foundation to which the church is built (thus "messiah" and the term "lord" comprise the Christian confession for Jesus on the day of Pentecost, Acts 2:36).
actually, the descriptive term for the church was jesus was "Lord", as in identified with Yahweh of the OT...
My fear in all of this is that while messiah would be my personal choice to keep in the translation... that those reading in in english will fail to tie jesus and Yahweh together, and they will probably have a vague grasp of the jewish meaning behind "messiah!"
maybe translate a 'Jewish guide for Gentiles reading their Bibles!"
Greektim
Well-Known Member
You missed my point. I said that the apostles had as their foundational confession that Jesus is Messiah as stated in the NT. Thus they called him often Jesus Christ or however you want to render it. The foundation of the church is his messiahship. N. T. Wright argues, and I agree w/ him, that "messiah" was rarely associated w/ Jesus pre-cross b/c of all the misunderstandings. So alternate terms like "son of man" or "son of God" were put in its place to refer to Messiah. But after the cross, "messiah" in its full meaning and understanding was associated to Jesus more than even "lord".
However, to go along w/ your point above, the political confession that is associated to that messiahship as well as God's rulership is that Jesus Messiah is Lord. Both terms became the hallmark of Christian creeds. Thus it was the summary of Jesus on the day of Pentecost - Acts 2:36.
think the problem with using Messiah to us today would be the modern reader has little understanding of the term/concept, and the jews themselves thought that messiah would be a human annoited by god, but NOT divine, who would rule as a political figure to a restored isreal!
How about calling him the saviour of the World?
Greektim
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure that Χριστος has that connotation in mind, not totally anyhow.
I'm referring to an actual translation philosophy where we take the term Χριστος and either translate its meaning (denotative or connotative) or transliterate it ("Christ"). Anything outside of that is a completely different subject of translation philosophy (that I can see, anyways).
Agreed!
would show us that a fully literal all the time to text translation would NOT be best route to go, as sometimes would have to factor in just how that chosen word would impact the understanding while being read by its receipts!
Think the NASB best english bbile version, but would also see times to go to say NIV HCSB for more"understanding!"
Hi Greektim, please use words as defined in the dictionary. Stop inventing your own meanings and attributing them to others.
We should translate the actual message intended by the original author, and so Anointed One is the best translation. Never mind if you are more familiar with Jesus Christ than with Jesus the Anointed.
To deny a connotative meaning goes beyond the explicit literal meaning is to call into question the meaning of words. Greektim seeks to focus on a distinction without a difference.
We should translate the actual message intended by the original author, and so Anointed One is the best translation. Never mind if you are more familiar with Jesus Christ than with Jesus the Anointed.
To deny a connotative meaning goes beyond the explicit literal meaning is to call into question the meaning of words. Greektim seeks to focus on a distinction without a difference.
All three are fine, but the road to the future upgrades toward clarity. Anointed triggers two questions who anointed Jesus and for what purpose was Jesus anointed. These questions point to the connotative meaning of Anointed, God's chosen Deliverer. Recall we must believe in the One who sent Jesus in order to be able to believe in Jesus. Therefore Anointed is not only the finest translation choice, the others are excluded because they do not point to God directly. First you must learn Christ means anointed, and then learn who anointed Jesus and for what purpose. We should cut out the extraneous middle step in understanding.
I prefer whatever word meaning the original authors were inspired to employ. Hence Anointed over Messiah or Christ. And confusion is greatly reduced with anointed is in lower case for the Apostles, but in upper case for Jesus the Anointed.
Lord is another word of modern confusion. In the Old Testament, thousands of times the telagramation YHWH was replaced with Lord, but then Lord was also used to translate other Hebrew or possibly Aramaic words. To an outsider like me, they seemed to have a goal of obliteration rather than faithful translation.
Lord is another word of modern confusion. In the Old Testament, thousands of times the telagramation YHWH was replaced with Lord, but then Lord was also used to translate other Hebrew or possibly Aramaic words. To an outsider like me, they seemed to have a goal of obliteration rather than faithful translation.