Should a Christian partake of beverage alochol?

[Priscilla Ann]

standingfirminChrist:

By definition wine is "fermented". If it's not fermented it is not "wine". The bible does not say otherwise.

PA

 

[JackRUS]

Before I got saved I was an avid collector of fine wine. I can assure you that the Baptist argument that they drank grape juice in Christ's time is nonsense. And as for the strength of the wine in Christ's day, it is the sugar in the wine that determines the alcohol content of wine. A good dry wine (less sugar) is about 12% alcohol today. I doubt that wine in the first century was any less than that in alcohol.

But wine was enjoyed with food as a culture in His day.

Grape juice was first invented in the 20th century by the Welch's company. They were wine makers in the Finger Lakes area of New York State and because of the Prohibition they had had to come up with another way to stay in business.

This is a good look at the various uses of the term "wine" in Scripture. You will find no way to interpret grape juice in either the Hebrew or the Greek:

http://www.angelfire.com/nv/TheOliveBranch/append27.html

And yes, Jesus turned the water into real wine, not grape juice. Grape juice requires preservatives. Wine does not due to the tannins and alcohol.

Of course we are required as Christians not to cause another Christian to stumble even if it's lawful for us to have a glass of wine with a meal, of a cool one after a hard days work. Rom. 14:21-22.

 

[Ray Berrian]

In any generation is is clearly the drinking of wine 'in excess' is where the sin of drunkeness comes into focus. [Ephesians 5:18]

As Christians our focus should be on being obedient to the Lord and being '. . . filled with the Spirit' of God.

Our goal should be toward spiritual verities and not food and beverages that will perish.

Even in I Timothy 3:3 in the Pastoral Epistles the law, if you will, was/is not to let wine control the pastor/bishop. He is to show moderation not only as to wine but in all things.

If a pastor chases his organist that is not his wife or becomes an alcoholic it means that his love was there rather than toward the Lord.

How about preacher who like to play too much golf rather than visiting with each member of his church at least once a year? If he has a membership of 1,200 then he needs at least one assistant/associate pastor.

Moderation is the key.

 

[Ray Berrian]

Point of clarity. The preacher is to have only one wife; more than one sexual partner is a sin against the Lord, obviously.

 

[Linda64]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:

Moderation is the key.

So are we to be "moderate" taking poison?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

pinoybaptist,

I might say the same thing to you. You, as well as others seem to have the opinion that God's Word allows the drinking of alcohol.

Yet, just as Solomon wrote 'Do not have experience with' in the Old Testament, Paul reiterated the same by saying we are not to partake of anything that will cause our brother to stumble. Well, whether you drink it in front of your brother or not, it will cause him to stumble if he partakes of it. So Paul said no as well.

If one lie makes one a liar, or one theft makes one a thief, why do you not think that one drink does not constitute a drunk in God's eyes?

No flesh will be justified in His sight.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Every drunk started out with 'just one drink' Wine is a mocker and strong drink is raging; whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

Those that advocate moderation are greatly deceived.

 

[ituttut]

Originally posted by Priscilla Ann:
standingfirminChrist:

By definition wine is "fermented". If it's not fermented it is not "wine". The bible does not say otherwise.

Amen. I personally believe wine, or a martini, or other drink is to be taken just prior to eating, and/or during the meal. Or during the meal, and a drink afterwards if desired. I just wish all weren’t so ignorant of what the Word says, and those that are not would just decide to accept His Word, and not what some denomination of man has decided to indoctrinate members with. We are to believe what the Holy Spirit has furnished us, and in faith accept it, whether we like it or not.

Wine is good for you (as is now being proven scientifically). Jesus drank it; all of the earthly Apostles, along with the heavenly Apostle who tells Timothy he needs to loosen up and relax, taking a little wine for his stomachs sake. Christians, loosen up for we are “free” in Christ in our “liberty”, but we must be sensible about it and not hurt the “babes” in Christ, and only drink in moderation, and never in a situation that could do harm, e.g., driving.

Why do so many Christians go about saying, “Oh you can't do this, and you can't do that. Just be like me and be perfect. These of the do’s and don’ts, not specifically noted in scripture, are most often those with the 2x4 in their eyes. We find them saying, “Lips that touch liquor will never touch mine.” Well I sure hope they don't get their wish for they will never kiss Jesus, and the devil sips his through a straw. Take your pick.

There is no verse in the bible that says taking a drink of wine; hard liquor, beer or any other is a sin. In fact some believe wine is OK but none of the other. All is acceptable to every one of us, whether in His Body or not. Deuteronomy 14:26, [/I]“And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the Lord thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household.”[/I]

What does Genesis 14:18 imply? ”And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.”

Please just think for one moment if you will, you that think it is a sin to drink, to give or even suggest of ingesting wine. Just think what you are saying. Aren’t you saying the “High Priest of the most High God”, Jesus the man, every Apostle, and Mary the vessel that brought Jesus into the world, are all sinners? Without too much explanation I believe the Word teaches they brought, drank, or suggested it is good to enjoy one of the acceptable pleasures in this life. Christian faith, ituttut

 

[standingfirminChrist]

"Melchizadek brought wine to Abraham"

Can anyone show me one verse that says Abraham drank that wine? I daresay there is not one verse to show he did.

"Why do so many Christians go about saying, “Oh you can't do this, and you can't do that. Just be like me and be perfect. These of the do’s and don’ts, not specifically noted in scripture, are most often those with the 2x4 in their eyes. We find them saying, “Lips that touch liquor will never touch mine.” Well I sure hope they don't get their wish for they will never kiss Jesus, and the devil sips his through a straw. Take your pick."

I also challenge anyone to show me scripture that plainly says Jesus drank fermented wine. There is not one verse in the Bible to support such a statement. As a matter of fact, Proverbs 31 tells us Princes could not drink wine. And Jesus was indeed the Prince of Peace. To accuse our Lord of drinking fermented wine is playing the part of the Pharisees who accused Him of being a winebibber. He refuted their accusations, as I also do.

 

[ituttut]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
Point of clarity. The preacher is to have only one wife; more than one sexual partner is a sin against the Lord, obviously.

One marriage at a time. Christian faith, ituttut

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Think about this folks. Just posting your belief that it is ok to drink in moderation may cause someone who is reading this and is weak to stumble. Just one drink may cause one person to become an alcoholic.

 

[ituttut]

Originally posted by standingfirminChrist:

Wine, as posted earlier, is a deceiver. One may think it will not hurt him or her, but in reality, it destroys lives, homes and families.

Yes, those that sin in drink pay for it. If one cannot drink without sinning, then they shouldn't drink so much. It is the same with eating. Those that are obese can quit sinning if they would quit eating so much. Christian faith, ituttut

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Proverbs 31:4 [It is] not for kings, O Lemuel, [it is] not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:

Jesus was the King of kings and also the Prince of Peace. And as such, He would not have drank fermented drink.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Two verses in Revelations plainly state that we are kings and priests unto the Lord. 1 Peter 2:9 states we are a royal priesthood. I would say as royalty, as kings and priests, the order for kings and priests not to partake of fermented drink applies to the child of God.

 

[Alcott]

Continuing your citation of Proverbs 31:

For they will drink and forget what is decreed, And pervert the rights of all the afflicted. Give strong drink to him who is perishing, And wine to him whose life is bitter. Let him drink and forget his poverty And remember his trouble no more. (Proverbs 31:4-7)

Do you obey God by giving wine to one whose life is bitter and strong drink to one who is dying, or do you disobey God in this?

 

[Linda64]

Abstain from all appearance of evil. (1 Thessalonians 5:22)

Think about your witness to a lost world. How do you reach a lost world while holding on to the "I can drink in moderation" theory and use the "excuse" of "Christian liberty". The drunkard* wasn't always a drunkard---his/her drunkenness started with "just one drink". You can't become a drunkard unless you take that first drink.

It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. (Romans 14:21)

We are not to put a stumblingblock before anyone. Why take the risk of causing someone to stumble--that first drink just might make him a drunkard.

Think seriously about how your behavior witnesses to the lost. You may be the only Bible someone ever reads.

*I use the word "drunkard" instead of alcoholic. The word alcoholic is not found in the Bible, but drunkard is.

 

[ituttut]

Originally posted by standingfirminChrist:
Think about this folks. Just posting your belief that it is ok to drink in moderation may cause someone who is reading this and is weak to stumble. Just one drink may cause one person to become an alcoholic.

But Christian friend, are we to live in constant fear. The "babe" must learn to walk on their own, taking falls if necessary. A drunk will be a drunk if that is what they will be. A homosexual will be a homosexual if that is what they will be.

The weak that read here will no longer have an excuse to believe their error. If one does not believe His Word, are we not to exhort that one to believe what they read from His Word, and forget what they have been taught by man? Christian faith, ituttut

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Originally posted by ituttut:
But Christian friend, are we to live in constant fear. The "babe" must learn to walk on their own, taking falls if necessary. A drunk will be a drunk if that is what they will be. A homosexual will be a homosexual if that is what they will be.

A drunk will be a drunk? A homosexual will be a homosexual? God's Word says He is not willing that any should perish. We cannot have that type of attitude that they are meant to be drunks or homosexuals.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Originally posted by ituttut:

The weak that read here will no longer have an excuse to believe their error. If one does not believe His Word, are we not to exhort that one to believe what they read from His Word, and forget what they have been taught by man? Christian faith, ituttut

The weak will no longer have an excuse. It is funny how people say the weak have no excuse and then post their opinion that drinking in moderation is ok. It is giving them an excuse.

James says something about this....

A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

 

[Linda64]

Originally posted by Alcott:
Continuing your citation of Proverbs 31:

For they will drink and forget what is decreed, And pervert the rights of all the afflicted. Give strong drink to him who is perishing, And wine to him whose life is bitter. Let him drink and forget his poverty And remember his trouble no more. (Proverbs 31:4-7)

Do you obey God by giving wine to one whose life is bitter and strong drink to one who is dying, or do you disobey God in this?

Proverbs 31:6-7 gives us the ONLY legitimate use of alcohol in Scripture. "This would be using it as an anesthetic; a pain killer. But this is not for everyone; he says in v. 6, "unto him that is ready to perish." Of course, they did not have all the pain killers that we have today. In our time, it would not be necessary to do this. We have many anesthetics available for those who are dying. Then, about the only thing available to the average person would have been some kind of alcohol. Alcohol is a depressant; it is not a stimulant, as some think. After several drinks, one gets dizzy; then he will pass out. So this passage teaches that alcoholic beverage would be only for the person who is ready to die; there would be no hope for his life. All that would be possible would be to ease his pain and help him forget his misery." Way of Life Encyclopedia of the Bible, Article: Wine, by David Cloud