Should Associate Pastor be Fired?

[righteousdude2]

I do not personally have an Associate Pastor, but the church I go to does have this problem, and I believe he needs to be let go, since he sees this as a non-problem!

He goes down to the local XXX Arcades, and leaves Bible Tracts inside the magazines [he tries to place them in the issues centerfold, something he says men will undoubtedly go to before considering the purchasing of the magazine]. He says he is witnessing to those who open the magazines and find the tract! I say he should not:

1) Be in a place like that....
2) The tracts mostly likely fall on the floor, or are disregarded....and,
3) He cannot possibly be opening those magazines without seeing some of the XXX photos they are filled with!

The pastor is aware of this [and in my heart, is wrong for looking the other way], as are many members and the pastoral staff, because he has boldly stated in testimonies his attempt to reach this group of people. Furthermore, he claims Jesus would have gone to the seedy places of Rome in order to witness and preach!

Maybe I'm a prude, and judgemental, but, I see know real good coming from this. He'd do better waiting outside and talking to those who come and go!

What say you, regarding this interesting use, or miss-use of time and printed material?

 

[Bro. James]

Unless one is an eunuch and has a witness, one should not enter such places. The lust of the flesh and the eyes can be overwhelming even with low T. Perhaps handing out bibles and tracts in public in front would be better--get thrown in jail for preaching the gospel.

The Devil can still sift us like wheat--let The Lord deal with Satan.

Eve knew better, she was beguiled; she should have fled.

No one comes to the Father unless the Spirit draws him.

 

[evangelist6589]

I do not personally have an Associate Pastor, but the church I go to does have this problem, and I believe he needs to be let go, since he sees this as a non-problem!

He goes down to the local XXX Arcades, and leaves Bible Tracts inside the magazines [he tries to place them in the issues centerfold, something he says men will undoubtedly go to before considering the purchasing of the magazine]. He says he is witnessing to those who open the magazines and find the tract! I say he should not:

1) Be in a place like that....
2) The tracts mostly likely fall on the floor, or are disregarded....and,
3) He cannot possibly be opening those magazines without seeing some of the XXX photos they are filled with!

The pastor is aware of this [and in my heart, is wrong for looking the other way], as are many members and the pastoral staff, because he has boldly stated in testimonies his attempt to reach this group of people. Furthermore, he claims Jesus would have gone to the seedy places of Rome in order to witness and preach!

Maybe I'm a prude, and judgemental, but, I see know real good coming from this. He'd do better waiting outside and talking to those who come and go!

What say you, regarding this interesting use, or miss-use of time and printed material?

He should be asked to stand outside and not enter a sinful place.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

He should be asked to stand outside and not enter a sinful place.

Those were my thoughts, too, and I have to wonder if the placing of tracts isn't just an excuse to be inside such a place.

If he refuses a suggestion, and then a request, and finally a demand that he not go inside, he obviously answers the question and needs to step down or be removed from service.

 

[JohnnyReb]

Did Jesus not enter sinfull places and sit with sinfull people in order to teach them?? Was he not criticized for doing this??

I'm sure Jesus sitting with tax collectors was almost as absurd as what you view this associate pastor as doing. I think the key here is to really examine his intent. Is he truly trying to reach sinners and provide them with the gospel?? Also how else do you spread the Gospel if you are afraid to mingle with sinners and enter sinfull places? Are you more worried about how it LOOKS to Men or whether it pleases God for this guy to do some dirty work to reach the lost.

If his intent is true and honest....I applaud him. If only one person opens a book and is lead to Jesus Christ because of this guys guts to go against the grain just remember there is a celebration in heaven when a lost soul is saved.

I actually convinced my pastor that it doesn't do much good to keep the gospel confined within the church walls. The sinners in the world don't hear it. Sometimes you have to find the sinners and bring them in. Having a church full of godly people doesn't save the lost. Unfortunately that's the mindset of many churches. As long as their little congregation is living right then screw everyone else. If your not preaching the gospel outside the 4 walls of church and not trying to reach a sinner somewhere whether it be a xxx magazine room or a bar...,your not doing Gods Work. Remember....it is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick.

 

[webdog]

I think using Jesus as the excuse to continue doing this is lame. I don't believe Jesus didn't have limitations. He wouldn't have gone to topless parties, Roman orgies, etc. Having dinner with sinners is hardly the same thing as what this guy is doing. I would be more concerned about his attitude of not caring what those in the church think about his 'ministry'.

 

[JonC]

I think it appropriate for a pastor, or any believer, to witness to those who would involve themselves in pornography (or any other sin). One problem is that this pastor may be partaking in that sin as well – I can’t say for sure – and if not may be running towards temptation at the least. A bigger issue is that the pastor is not witnessing – he is putting tracts in porn mags. This is no more witnessing that the sticker on the back of my truck is evangelism.

 

[Don]

Jesus sat with sinners...but I don't think He pulled open the curtains while a prostitute was "engaged in business."

Here's what I suggest: Someone should go with the associate pastor as he engages in his ministry. Consider it an "accountability" thing. If that's not acceptable to him, or to anyone else, then I'd suggest that it's not acceptable to be doing in the first place.

BTW: I don't know about porn shops. Most magazine stands that I'm aware of (convenience stores, etc.) usually have those types of magazines in sealed plastic bags. I haven't paid attention in Barnes & Noble or other bookstores as to whether they have those kinds of magazines, or how they keep them on the shelves. Not sure what state/local laws and regulations are on such matters. My curiosity is, if he's placing tracts inside magazines, either the porn shop doesn't keep them in plastic covers, or he's opening the plastic covers to place them in there--which I'm reasonably sure the porn shop people wouldn't allow if they caught him.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Did Jesus not enter sinfull places and sit with sinfull people in order to teach them?? Was he not criticized for doing this??

Did He walk into the bedrooms of adulterers and watch for a few minutes before ministering to them? That's the equivalent of what this pastor is doing, in my opinion. I'm not aware that some form of pornography was available then, but if it was, men looked at it. Obviously (IMO) Jesus wouldn't go as far as this pastor is going, and what you describe isn't the same thing as ...

... Jesus sitting with tax collectors ...

You are right, however, that ...

... was almost as absurd as what you view this associate pastor as doing. I think the key here is to really examine his intent. Is he truly trying to reach sinners and provide them with the gospel??

If his "intent" is truly to witness, he can do that from outside, without going in among the adulterers to watch.

I actually convinced my pastor that it doesn't do much good to keep the gospel confined within the church walls. The sinners in the world don't hear it. Sometimes you have to find the sinners and bring them in. Having a church full of godly people doesn't save the lost. Unfortunately that's the mindset of many churches.

You're again exactly right. But opening up porn rags and seeing the pictures while placing a tract may be using the gospel as an excuse to engage in the pastor's own sin. If he wants to avoid the accusation, he can be at least as effective, if not more so, standing outside and witnessing there.

As long as their little congregation is living right then screw everyone else. If your not preaching the gospel outside the 4 walls of church and not trying to reach a sinner somewhere whether it be a xxx magazine room or a bar...,your not doing Gods Work. Remember....it is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick.

Couldn't agree more, except for the part about actually going into a XXX magazine room. Unnecessary, and it opens him up to accusation, rightly or wrongly. Stay outside where there can be no question.

 

[preachinjesus]

It is an incorrect argument to appropriate Jesus' fellowship with sinners to condone such actions.

Don's first line above pretty sums up the point.

Jesus', while fellowshipping with sinners, didn't enter the sinners' dwellings to do so in ways that would have left himself open to question. This young pastor needs to be confronted, biblically, and given appropriate boundaries.

Besides, the folks in these places don't care about tracts. Learning to live in fellowship with sinners is the greatest proclamation tool, outside of preaching the Gospel directly, we have.

 

[Yeshua1]

I do not personally have an Associate Pastor, but the church I go to does have this problem, and I believe he needs to be let go, since he sees this as a non-problem!

He goes down to the local XXX Arcades, and leaves Bible Tracts inside the magazines [he tries to place them in the issues centerfold, something he says men will undoubtedly go to before considering the purchasing of the magazine]. He says he is witnessing to those who open the magazines and find the tract! I say he should not:

1) Be in a place like that....
2) The tracts mostly likely fall on the floor, or are disregarded....and,
3) He cannot possibly be opening those magazines without seeing some of the XXX photos they are filled with!

The pastor is aware of this [and in my heart, is wrong for looking the other way], as are many members and the pastoral staff, because he has boldly stated in testimonies his attempt to reach this group of people. Furthermore, he claims Jesus would have gone to the seedy places of Rome in order to witness and preach!

Maybe I'm a prude, and judgemental, but, I see know real good coming from this. He'd do better waiting outside and talking to those who come and go!

What say you, regarding this interesting use, or miss-use of time and printed material?

Internally, ANY Man , no matter how 'spiritual" they appear to be, will be tempted and tried by continually see pretty women naked, and just think think of the church and his witness to those seeing him grabbing those magazines on a regular basis!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Jesus sat with sinners...but I don't think He pulled open the curtains while a prostitute was "engaged in business."

Here's what I suggest: Someone should go with the associate pastor as he engages in his ministry. Consider it an "accountability" thing. If that's not acceptable to him, or to anyone else, then I'd suggest that it's not acceptable to be doing in the first place.

BTW: I don't know about porn shops. Most magazine stands that I'm aware of (convenience stores, etc.) usually have those types of magazines in sealed plastic bags. I haven't paid attention in Barnes & Noble or other bookstores as to whether they have those kinds of magazines, or how they keep them on the shelves. Not sure what state/local laws and regulations are on such matters. My curiosity is, if he's placing tracts inside magazines, either the porn shop doesn't keep them in plastic covers, or he's opening the plastic covers to place them in there--which I'm reasonably sure the porn shop people wouldn't allow if they caught him.

Yea, he must look like a perv lurking about.

 

[evangelist6589]

Yea, he must look like a perv lurking about.

The Bible warns us about the appearance of evil and to stay away from it. This would be a example of how to NOT avoid the appearance of evil. Perhaps this pastor is 100% innocent, but it sure does not look that way.

 

[JonC]

The Bible warns us about the appearance of evil and to stay away from it. This would be a example of how to NOT avoid the appearance of evil. Perhaps this pastor is 100% innocent, but it sure does not look that way.

Yep, it probably isn't a good thing to be known as the church with the "porn guy" as assistant pastor. But I still think that if the pastor's idea of evangelism is putting out tracts then there is something wrong - whether it's in magazines or stuffing them in shoes at Walmart.

 

[Mexdeaf]

This seems germane to the discussion:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/09/1...ps-tennessee-exotic-dancers-shed-their-pasts/

 

[Judith]

I do not personally have an Associate Pastor, but the church I go to does have this problem, and I believe he needs to be let go, since he sees this as a non-problem!

He goes down to the local XXX Arcades, and leaves Bible Tracts inside the magazines [he tries to place them in the issues centerfold, something he says men will undoubtedly go to before considering the purchasing of the magazine]. He says he is witnessing to those who open the magazines and find the tract! I say he should not:

1) Be in a place like that....
2) The tracts mostly likely fall on the floor, or are disregarded....and,
3) He cannot possibly be opening those magazines without seeing some of the XXX photos they are filled with!

The pastor is aware of this [and in my heart, is wrong for looking the other way], as are many members and the pastoral staff, because he has boldly stated in testimonies his attempt to reach this group of people. Furthermore, he claims Jesus would have gone to the seedy places of Rome in order to witness and preach!

Maybe I'm a prude, and judgemental, but, I see know real good coming from this. He'd do better waiting outside and talking to those who come and go!

What say you, regarding this interesting use, or miss-use of time and printed material?

If he has permission to do this he is not violating any command. If he does not have permission he needs to stop and just witness to peole before they go in or after they come out. Unless he is violating some church law leave him alone.

 

[saturneptune]

Those were my thoughts, too, and I have to wonder if the placing of tracts isn't just an excuse to be inside such a place.

If he refuses a suggestion, and then a request, and finally a demand that he not go inside, he obviously answers the question and needs to step down or be removed from service.

I agree. We men are wired a certain way, and if seeing these types of images does not spur some sort of sordid thought process, there is something wrong. It is a good place to stay away from, especially a leader in the local church. Of course, as in all Baptist churches, this issue comes down to the will of the local church.

 

[evangelist6589]

Yep, it probably isn't a good thing to be known as the church with the "porn guy" as assistant pastor. But I still think that if the pastor's idea of evangelism is putting out tracts then there is something wrong - whether it's in magazines or stuffing them in shoes at Walmart.

I do not agree. Passing out tracts is a wonderful way of doing evangelism. However our primary way should be talking with the lost. But tracts are a great way to reach people whom cannot talk or we never meet.

Living waters makes millions of tracts each year as there is a HUGE demand for gospel tracts. Check out these cool tracts.

 

[JonC]

I do not agree. Passing out tracts is a wonderful way of doing evangelism.

In what ways do you feel passing out tracts equates to witnessing?

I'm not saying that it is wrong to do so, but too often "evangelism" is viewed as wearing "Jesus saves" t-shirts, putting bumper stickers on your car, and passing out material. It seems more like advertising to me (like "bud light" t-shirts, political bumper stickers, and social project flyers). At best, it seems that this would be providing material to evangelize or witness, but simply providing the material...I don't know.

 

[JonC]

BTW, the tracts are fine (actually, I don't know what the first one says on back but I've seen some similar - always disappointing when I find one on the street) and I think would be a great introduction to the gospel message.