Should Christians Be Involved In martial Arts?

[JesusFan]

You are entirely welcome.
So, no specific examples for me to work with?

tai Chi, Kung Fu, and some others more 'exotics" do tend to mix philsophies of religious worldviews together with the physical training...

other wards, conditioned mind and body, its just mental aspects involves trying to modify to a view of almost like the Universe is within you!

Agreed!

Again, think that one can "Christianise" even those mixing/coming from a distinctive false religion viewpoint, my concern is if Christians just took and accepted ALL that they were to get taught in this regards!

To me, a close analogue to this discussion would be "christian Yoga", which many times involves putting label of christian over a system that is really pagen/occultic!

 

[John of Japan]

Yeah, personally I’ve always been quite critical of “chi” concepts.

Enjoyed reading your book, “Strength in the Inner Man”, and will likely be building off some paraphrased concepts of yours for use in counseling as it relates to motivation during my physical therapy interventions. One thing that caught my attention and I’m currently brainstorming on is what spinal motor neuron reflexes could possibly be taken advantage of to facilitate a desired voluntary motion in order to achieve a specific action, especially while involving a self-applied technique. I am aware of “proprioceptive neuromuscular facilitation” (PNF) “quick stretch” (QS) which facilitates a greater muscle contraction; although at best all I can see happening through self-application of a QS is achieving greater force but this would require a longer range of motion (ROM) and thereby demand more time. In regards to martial arts the extra time along with the accompanying telegraphing of the direction of movement by use of a QS reflex would seem to be mostly unproductive. ( especially against a style like Wing Chun which wastes no time in getting to the target ) Do you know of any specific actions (strikes) that are claimed to be made faster through spinal motor neuron reflexes or another way of recruiting reflex action other than QS that is being used?

Thanks for reading my book. Glad it was profitable.

I don't know of any specific techniques that can speed up your spinal motor neuron reflexes, but I can give you a concept. Drill on a speed bag (best, but a heavy bag will work) to launch your strike from any position: peekaboo, MMA block/stance ag. a high roundhouse kick (hands to side of head), down slightly, down low, Wing Chun stance, etc. The goal should be a straight line for your hand to the target from any location, planned or unplanned. In other words, with this concept there is no ideal place to launch a strike from, no chambering (classical chambering is for grappling/releases in my teaching).

This may sound to you like JKD's single angular attack, as it should. It is also taken from "Detroit style" boxing, in which the front hand is held lower. I've also used this from a Bill Wallace type karate stance in which the right foot is forward, the left hand guards the head while the right extends straight down, blocking your ribs. Punching with the lower hand is unexpected.

If you'll drill at this, punching from all angles in an SAA, your counter-punching reflexes should be speeded up. (Head movement becomes important to use this concept for countering.) Plus, telegraphing is eliminated.

PS. I want to remind you to watch the two “IP Man” movies while you’re on furlough if you get the chance.

Our son's been saying the same thing.

 

[John of Japan]

As one who's entered the cage as an amateur, I would have no objection. MMA is a sport, just like hockey, football, boxing, etc. It teaches the same discipline and dedication as any sport. Also, it is no more dangerous than those sports (to give an exact breakdown would de-rail the thread, so I'll leave that alone). In fact, there have been less career ending injuries in MMA than there have been in professional football.

Just like every other sport, it is not the sport that has anything wrong with it. But if you are tuning in just for the ring girls, then obviously that raises some objections. But no more so than hoping to catch a glimpse of the Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders in between downs.

You're right, and MMA is also much safer than boxing also, in which death, serious brain damage (Dementia pugilistica) and Parkinson's syndrome (as with Ali). But I know of only one death caused by MMA, and that was a ref's failure to see a neck choke in time.

And though MMA is truly a sport, it gives excellent self defense skills as do wrestling, judo, jujutsu, etc. And the exercise benefit is huge.

 

[John of Japan]

Again, think that one can "Christianise" even those mixing/coming from a distinctive false religion viewpoint, my concern is if Christians just took and accepted ALL that they were to get taught in this regards!

To me, a close analogue to this discussion would be "christian Yoga", which many times involves putting label of christian over a system that is really pagen/occultic!

The difference between yoga (which I don't believe can be truly "Christianized") and the Asian martial arts is that yoga was specifically developed as a Hindu religious practice, but the martial arts were specifically developed for war and self defense.

To give one example of many, the Hung Gar style was famous in China for producing guards for caravans during the lawless 19th century. This is why the style to this day trains with many different Chinese weapons. It was ostensibly developed from the Buddhist Shaolin Temple, but no one cared about the religion of the caravan guard as long as he got the job done. The caravan would even display banners with names of famous masters to warn off robbers. Religion didn't matter for the job and was not a part of the training.

 

[John of Japan]

Perhaps the greatest part of this thread is the numerous, hilarious emoticons populating the discourse.

You want a piece of me, huh, you want a piece of me??

Check it out: http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/Free-Fighting-Smileys/

 

[JesusFan]

The difference between yoga (which I don't believe can be truly "Christianized") and the Asian martial arts is that yoga was specifically developed as a Hindu religious practice, but the martial arts were specifically developed for war and self defense.

To give one example of many, the Hung Gar style was famous in China for producing guards for caravans during the lawless 19th century. This is why the style to this day trains with many different Chinese weapons. It was ostensibly developed from the Buddhist Shaolin Temple, but no one cared about the religion of the caravan guard as long as he got the job done. The caravan would even display banners with names of famous masters to warn off robbers. Religion didn't matter for the job and was not a part of the training.

My boy getting into karate, one of the first things the instructor told him was:
1. karate self defense, we stop fights , not start them
2. many times best defense is to avoid/run away
3. remember, bruce lee/Chuck norris stop men with bullets, that is just movies, bullets beat fists/feet!

 

[convicted1]

Perhaps the greatest part of this thread is the numerous, hilarious emoticons populating the discourse.

Oh yea?



I have a black belt you know, don't you? It's hanging in my closet next to the brown one. I use them to hold my pants up.


I gotta get in shape in case you try to jump me.

 

[John of Japan]

My boy getting into karate, one of the first things the instructor told him was:
1. karate self defense, we stop fights , not start them
2. many times best defense is to avoid/run away
3. remember, bruce lee/Chuck norris stop men with bullets, that is just movies, bullets beat fists/feet!

All great advice.

 

[Benjamin]

Thanks for reading my book. Glad it was profitable.

I don't know of any specific techniques that can speed up your spinal motor neuron reflexes, but I can give you a concept. Drill on a speed bag (best, but a heavy bag will work) to launch your strike from any position: peekaboo, MMA block/stance ag. a high roundhouse kick (hands to side of head), down slightly, down low, Wing Chun stance, etc. The goal should be a straight line for your hand to the target from any location, planned or unplanned. In other words, with this concept there is no ideal place to launch a strike from, no chambering (classical chambering is for grappling/releases in my teaching).

This may sound to you like JKD's single angular attack, as it should. It is also taken from "Detroit style" boxing, in which the front hand is held lower. I've also used this from a Bill Wallace type karate stance in which the right foot is forward, the left hand guards the head while the right extends straight down, blocking your ribs. Punching with the lower hand is unexpected.

If you'll drill at this, punching from all angles in an SAA, your counter-punching reflexes should be speeded up. (Head movement becomes important to use this concept for countering.) Plus, telegraphing is eliminated.

Thanks. In my field when we use term “reflex” we are referring to an action that does not need to send a signal all the way to the brain but is controlled at the spinal level. The training you are talking about falls under what we call the S.A.I.D. Principle (Specific Adaption to Imposed Demand) in short, when if you practice a specific task, (and this should be as perfectly as possible), with many (thousands) of repetitions it becomes part of the "Procedural Memory” and becomes something you don’t even need to think about before responding to a situation but the this action still comes all the way from the brain not just from the spinal level. This principle reminds me of a saying from Bruce Lee, “I fear not the man who has practiced 1,000 kicks, I fear the man who has practiced one kick 1,000 times.”

I do have another example of taking advantage of a true motor neurons reflex in case you’re interested (I apologize if this sounds nerdy or boring to you or others, but I just happen to be into this stuff and sometimes need someone to talk to:tonofbricks which involves reciprocal inhibition whereby it will increase the speed and power of a strike.

For example, in a back-fist action the triceps are the agonist muscle making the motion and the biceps are the antagonist muscles which normally work against the triceps at the joint during extension and slow it down. Reciprocal inhibition takes advantage of a stimulation through a motor neuron response which works through an isometric contraction of the agonists muscle (triceps) causing the antagonist muscle (bicep, which will normally slow down the action of the triceps) to relax and stretch easier thereby temporarily facilitating a mostly unrestrained extension at the elbow. The isometric contraction of the triceps needs to be 5-15 seconds and it would be easier to isolate the extensor muscles if one could get in a stance whereby he could press the posterior forearm of the involved arm against the un-involved arm during this time, also about a 2 second period of relaxing the triceps before executing the strike is necessary, but it will definitely increase the speed and power of the action beyond normal capabilities. If you could set it up to appear as a blocking stance or while doing a kick or something and then follow through with the back-fist this action would be primed with extra speed and power.

Also note that if one was using the un-involved arm to press against causes it to be in an isometrically “flexed” position then the reverse/opposite effect of the triceps on that arm will be relaxed through reciprocal inhibition thereby temporarily simultaneously facilitating an primed un-restrained and faster hook in that arm.

 

[righteousdude2]

If I had Need of Protection....

....I'd certainly want born-again believers to prayerfully cover my back, however, should I need actual physical protection, a few brothers schooled in the martial arts wouldn't hurt either :laugh:

I know Chuchk Norris is supposed to be a born-again believer, and his involvement in martial arts seems to have mixed well with his witness.

 

[John of Japan]

!!

Thanks. In my field when we use term “reflex” we are referring to an action that does not need to send a signal all the way to the brain but is controlled at the spinal level. The training you are talking about falls under what we call the S.A.I.D. Principle (Specific Adaption to Imposed Demand) in short, when if you practice a specific task, (and this should be as perfectly as possible), with many (thousands) of repetitions it becomes part of the "Procedural Memory” and becomes something you don’t even need to think about before responding to a situation but the this action still comes all the way from the brain not just from the spinal level. This principle reminds me of a saying from Bruce Lee, “I fear not the man who has practiced 1,000 kicks, I fear the man who has practiced one kick 1,000 times.”

I do have another example of taking advantage of a true motor neurons reflex in case you’re interested (I apologize if this sounds nerdy or boring to you or others, but I just happen to be into this stuff and sometimes need someone to talk to:tonofbricks which involves reciprocal inhibition whereby it will increase the speed and power of a strike.

For example, in a back-fist action the triceps are the agonist muscle making the motion and the biceps are the antagonist muscles which normally work against the triceps at the joint during extension and slow it down. Reciprocal inhibition takes advantage of a stimulation through a motor neuron response which works through an isometric contraction of the agonists muscle (triceps) causing the antagonist muscle (bicep, which will normally slow down the action of the triceps) to relax and stretch easier thereby temporarily facilitating a mostly unrestrained extension at the elbow. The isometric contraction of the triceps needs to be 5-15 seconds and it would be easier to isolate the extensor muscles if one could get in a stance whereby he could press the posterior forearm of the involved arm against the un-involved arm during this time, also about a 2 second period of relaxing the triceps before executing the strike is necessary, but it will definitely increase the speed and power of the action beyond normal capabilities. If you could set it up to appear as a blocking stance or while doing a kick or something and then follow through with the back-fist this action would be primed with extra speed and power.

Also note that if one was using the un-involved arm to press against causes it to be in an isometrically “flexed” position then the reverse/opposite effect of the triceps on that arm will be relaxed through reciprocal inhibition thereby temporarily simultaneously facilitating an primed un-restrained and faster hook in that arm.

Thanks much! You've increased my knowledge and got me thinking. This is all excellent stuff, and I want to study it, so I've copied it into an MS Word file for later.

 

[John of Japan]

....I'd certainly want born-again believers to prayerfully cover my back, however, should I need actual physical protection, a few brothers schooled in the martial arts wouldn't hurt either :laugh:

My strength is as the strength of ten because my heart is pure--and I practice the martial arts!

I know Chuchk Norris is supposed to be a born-again believer, and his involvement in martial arts seems to have mixed well with his witness.

Chuck has an excellent reputation both in the martial arts and as a Christian.

 

[HankD]

Perhaps the greatest part of this thread is the numerous, hilarious emoticons populating the discourse.

Amen.

:thumbs: :sleep: :sleeping_2:

HankD

 

[JesusFan]

My strength is as the strength of ten because my heart is pure--and I practice the martial arts!

Chuck has an excellent reputation both in the martial arts and as a Christian.

just curious, is it a common practice that people take their "basic" style of martial arts, and develope new system, their own style so to speak?

Like Bruce added to Kung Fu, Chuch Karate, developed own schools?

And is there a "better" style for say in matches, another for 'real world" fighting for defense?
Thanks!

 

[John of Japan]

just curious, is it a common practice that people take their "basic" style of martial arts, and develope new system, their own style so to speak?

Like Bruce added to Kung Fu, Chuch Karate, developed own schools?

In Asia, new styles are accepted only if the founder is absolutely brilliant and the new style is an obvious improvement. Or sometimes a style may break off from another because of a disagreement between the masters of the style.

In America, unfortunately, it seems that any yahoo can start his own style after getting a green belt somewhere, and people will believe him. In my case, (1) our style was based on what we had been taught by our teacher before he changed styles; (2) three of us (with a combined experience of about 70 years) started it together, and we have no big shot grandmaster; (3) we took it before a respected organization for evaluation, where the style was certified and I was awarded a 6th black as director of the black sash association, the leader of the style.

And is there a "better" style for say in matches, any other for 'real world" fighting for defense?
Thanks!

In a sport situation, it depends on the rules. When I was a wrestler I went against a judo guy in an early days mixed martial arts (MMA) match, but the judo guy insisted on rules that handicapped my style, so it was a draw. All things being considered, though, if both grappling and striking is allowed then a well-trained MMA fighter has the advantage over a traditional karate, kung fu, tae kwon do, judo or wrestling practitioner.

For self defense, though, the main thing is training hard on what you know. The average mugger or burgler cannot stand up against a trained martial artist of whatever style.

 

[Jkdbuck76]

Benjamin,

One thing that helped my speed was Escrima. Dan Inosanto integrated it into the JKD Concepts training because it forces you to "speed up". One way it was explained to me was that "if you get used to stick and knife sparring, then empty hand will seem slower--it will be like driving 85 mph on the interstate, and them immediately exiting and driving 35 thru a neighborhood." I cannot explain why this works, but it has been my experience that knife sparring and weapons sparring tend to speed us up. The knife sparring drawing out more cat-like reflexes since it draws out economy of motion. I don't know if this helps or not, but I hope it does.

 

[kfinks]

I have had to adjust technique as I have "matured". The hand speed and strength is still there, but the legs just ain't what they used to be.