That's true. But I do not find any place in the NT where self preservation trumps loving your enemy.
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Should Christians strongly support the SECOND AMENDMENT?
- Thread starter ROBERTGUWAPO
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One must look at the past to prepare for the future.
Defending oneself or another with the use of violence does not constitute hating the assailant.
Added thought: I would also contend that allowing innocents to be attacked unchallenged shows a distinct lack of Christian love for them.
A fight to the death doesn't exactly bring out feelings of love.
So you can shoot someone while loving them?
I agree. Good thing no one is advocating such a thing.
PreachTony
Active Member
RLBosley - Just out of curiosity, did you ever use violence while correcting a child? By that, I mean, did you ever spank a child? I don't know your situation, so I have to ask. The world considers corporal discipline to be "violent," yet it is often done with love. This is one instance of violence being used without "hate."
Now, in the case of self-defense, it's often going to be hard to form an opinion of the attacker beyond the fact that they are attacking. We are allowed to take a stand against something, and merely doing so does not mean we hate the person responsible for the act we're standing against.
The point is a violent act can be used in a proper manner and it does not equate to hate. Jesus was, arguably, quite violent when He overthrew the tables of the moneychangers and made a whip to chase them out. Do you think that means Jesus hated those people? Or did He hate what they were doing and want to see them change their lives?
It's easily inferred that some people do advocate the stance Rolf posited. Some people seem to think any and all violence is expressly forbidden. Do you really believe God would have us stand idly by while someone injures or kills innocents (read: children)? I don't believe that to be so.
So you can let an innocent be attacked while loving them?
:thumbs: Better said than I could hope to.
I have. But you can't seriously be trying to correlate corporal discipline to using lethal force.
Jesus not only said "don't hate" but "LOVE your enemies." Can you kill someone while loving them?
While overturning the tables could be understood as violent, I do not believe that Jesus harmed anyone there, nor does the text say he did.
Did I not just say that N
NE (least of all me) is advocating that?Where did I say or indicate that? In fact I just said that N
If someone attacks your loved one, are they your enemy? Who would you love more?
PreachTony
Active Member
Not a direct correlation, no, but the fact remains that a Christian can commit an act of what the world would call "violence" and could do so without hating the recipient of the act.
We could have a long, drawn-out semantics argument over these topics. Yes, it is possible to kill someone you love. The question becomes are you applying the temporary emotion of the moment, or the longer-standing emotions?
And here we enter the territory of rhetoric and semantics even more. What constitutes a violent act? If someone broke into your house and trashed the place, but no one was hurt, would you say it was a nonviolent action? Christ even made a whip of cords to chase them from the building. The potential for bodily harm did exist, although we could argue the theological implications until we're both blue in the face.
Did I not just say that N
All I said was someone could infer that stance from positions previously stated. I failed to properly point out that my question, which you bolded in your post, was meant to be rhetorical. It was not actually aimed at you. Apologies for the lack of communication on my part. Intonation so rarely displays in written text.
So, assuming she's still with us, you would kill your own mother if she broke into your house at 2 AM? I mean, she could be on drugs.
No, you wouldn't, because you love her. You would show mercy.
Matthew
5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
I wasn't the one who claimed you can kill somebody that you love while displaying no hate.
To me, loving somebody doesn't mean ventilating them with handgun rounds. If somebody unknown breaks into my window, no, I'm not going to show mercy, there will be no love displayed, before, during, or after.
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That's what happens when you try to use the Bible for things that it never specifically gives instructions for.
...well, some of you folks can roll over and play dead if you want but this ole' boy is going to defend himself and his family at all costs.
And what was that about the 12. gauge? Germany wanted to cease using it? Tell that to all the Jews. The 12 gauge was absolutely murder on the German Soldiers as was the gas chamber's to the less fortunate.
And what was that about the 12. gauge? Germany wanted to cease using it? Tell that to all the Jews. The 12 gauge was absolutely murder on the German Soldiers as was the gas chamber's to the less fortunate.
It tells us why they needed the swords. For self defense. They were considered not only heretics, but as such traitors to Israel (IE numbered with the transgressors).
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