Should Christians support the death penalty?

crickets?

 

To jdcanady,
I retract that we were not created in the image of God.

Jn.8:44 is a valid description of our state as the unsaved are under the lordship of the god of this world. We do not belong to God until we become His adopted children through the new birth.

John 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

JD,

Where is your reply to my post?

I am interested to read your responses to the Scriptural positions I gave.

I am noticing that you are very comfortable in hypothetical scenarios, and Scriptures that have nothing to do with capital punishment, and that you seem to avoid Scriptures/arguments that support/deal with capital punishment. This is common among those who reject capital punishment while accepting Scripture.

An example of this is found in the following statement:
"I can give you examples of murderers of whom God did not require the death penalty. Moses was a murderer (Ex. 2:11-14). He did not reap what he sowed. King David was a murderer (2 Samuel 11). He did not reap what he sowed. The apostle Paul was a murderer (Acts 8:1-3), he did not reap what he sowed. God had mercy instead."

What does that have to do with Romans 13, Genesis 9, or the host of other passages that support capital punishment? You act as if that cancels out the other. Well it does not. God's mercy does not mean that captial punishment is wrong. God's allowing some to avoid it while allowing others to suffer it does not mean capital punishment is wrong. God has not rained fire onto homosexuals today, but that does not mean He did not do it to Sodom. Just because some either get out of their punishment, or are allowed to avoid it, does not mean that it is not a just punishment.

You also said that men like David and Moses did not reap what they sowed. I think they would disagree with that. Both of them suffered due to their actions (if you study the texts). As for why they did not suffer the death penalty? Moses would have had he not fled (Ex 2:15). David set up a situation where Uriah was killed and God confronted David with his sin. Just because God did not have David executed does not mean that God opposes capital punishment.

Let's get out of the hypothetical scenarios...
Let's get out of the passages that do not deal with capital punishment (ie..Romans 8:1, etc)...
Let's deal with the subject and the Scriptures the directly address this issue...

Ok?

Martin.

 

The reason it is important to see the context of Gen.9 is that its focus is on the nature of human beings. We are made in the image of God. Therefore, we should not kill human beings. The death penalty kills human beings. It is wrong, therefore, for God's children to support and implement the death penalty.

==You still have not dealt with what the passage says. "Whoever sheds man's blood, by man his blood shall be shed, for in the image of God, He made man" Gen 9:6
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We know that God has not made an absolute statement concerning the death penalty (Whoever sheds man's blood, By man his blood shall be shed...) If that were absolutely true, every murderer would have been killed (including Moses, David, & Paul). That has obviously not happened.

==Strawman. God is not saying He will shed man's blood. He is giving Noah (etc) information on what He expects. He expects that murderers will be executed. That does not mean that everyone who commits murder will be executed, but it does mean that capital punishment is the just reward and God gave government permission to act it out.
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God gave specific commands to the Jews to kill people for certain offenses at certain times. Many of those commands are found the the Law of Moses. He even commanded them to wipe out entire peoples, including men, women, and children at certain times.

The difference is that we do not live under the Old Testament Law. It is no where commanded that Christians should put anyone to death for any crime. We are commanded to pursue people with the gospel, and mercy and love.

==I agree, but it shows that God is not opposed to the death penalty (as you have falsely claimed). I agree that is what we Christian are suppose to do. However, again, that is not the issue.
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That is the subject of this debate. Should Christians support the death penalty? Christians have direct influence here because they elect politians that make laws that enforce the death penalty, they could serve on a jury where the death penalty is an option. They vote on judges who implement the death penalty or decide whether the death penalty should be upheld.

==There is nothing wrong with that because God has given human government the sword to exact wrath on evil doers (Rom 13).
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I will have admit up front that I am ignorant of any command to Christians to seek to establish the justice of God on earth.

==Romans 13.
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May I pose the same question to you that I posed to Jim? Read I Tim. 1:15-16. "It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all. And yet for this reason I found mercy, in order that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience, as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life."

==That has nothing to do with this issue. Again, you are majoring on passages that don't deal with this issue. That passage deals with the forgivness of sins and eternal life (etc). It says 100% about whether God permits/approves of capital punishment.
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Again, I am referring to Christians supporting the death penalty, not unbelievers, or even secular governments.

==It is not Christians who carry this out, it is the secular government. If a Christian, muslim, Jew, or atheist kills someone they are guilty of murder. This is about what powers God has given the secular powers. Christians who sit on juries are part of that system (in this country). That system has the sword and can use it. There is nothing wrong with a person, christian or not, sitting on that jury and making that decision.

You seem to think that we should just be nice to everyone, la, la, la...Well that may work in theory but it does not work in practice. The governments must act against those who take human life, and one way God has given them to do that is capital punishment, the sword. If a person is on a jury, they are part of that body (for that time) that God has given that authority to. Same if a Christian is a policman who must shot a suspect, a soilder who must shoot the enemy, or a judge on a death penalty case. At that time those people are part of and acting as the government and God has given that government the power/right to use the sword. There is nothing wrong with that. Otherwise we would have anarchy.

Should we share the Gospel with these people? Of course, but that does not change the fact that they must suffer the results of their actions. If they get life in prison, they do not get out early just because they become Christians. If they get the death penalty and then become Christians that does not automatically mean that they should not be executed.
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But when you read Gen 9, it is clear that the image of God in man is the reason for the death penalty. Capital punishment for murder (stamping out God's image) shows the value of the image that was unjustly murdered. We must support the death penalty for the very reason that man is in the image of God.

You are correct. It is the responsibility of government, not of individuals.

Um, no ... not at all. Christ's point was about hypocrisy. THe equivalent would be murderers putting murderers to deaht in the name justice. The issue was hypocrisy.

It is not about desiring the death of someone. It is about honoring the sanctity of life in the way in which God commanded. How do you honor the sanctity of life when your actions show that it really isn't that important?

 

Genesis 9 teaches capital punishment because man is created in God's image. Numbers 35 says that the death penalty for murder is non-negotiable because the blood of the murdered pollutes the land and it can only be cleansed by the blood of the murderer. GOD said this. It hasn't changed.

 

Here we have the death penalty for lying to God.
This happened in the church amongst believers. Peter was in Charge.

Ac 5:9
Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.
Ac 5:10
Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.

Next we have Paul delivering someone to Satan to destroy the flesh that the spirit might be saved. This also was in the church and Paul was in charge.
1Co 5:3
For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
1Co 5:4
In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Co 5:5
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
1Co 5:6
Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?

And again here:
1Ti 1:19
Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
1Ti 1:20
Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

The first one was a sex criminal.The second was a blasphemer.

So we see three instances of either delivering one to Satan (a murderer from the beginning) or execution for the following crimes in the church, 1.) Lying, 2.) Sex crimes, 3.) Blasphemy.

jd, you are on a slippery slope and you have nothing to hold onto.

The death penalty is just and right and it is sacntioned by God to destroy evil doers. I listed these to illustrate that your constant mantra, about how christians should not seek justice, is futile.
Clearly there ARE instances in the NT of the death penalty. One of which is carried out by God himself for such a "harmless" sin as lying.

In HIS service;
Jim

 

JD;
You still haven't addressed the alternative.
Rewarding them with food, clothing, shelter, health care, and entertainment for the rest of their life.
What you are espousing is this:
A man takes a childs life.
We give that man a life of ease in return.

AAAAAAAANHT wrong answer.

In HIS service;
Jim

 

And another thing. For they who would rather not execute criminals since we have "made mistakes".
I fail to see that as sufficient reason. The "mistake" factor is miniscule.
On the other hand, how many felons have we let loose on our streets who have killed again? The papers are full of those stories.

The logic escapes me. Don't execute the guilty but let them loose under the assumption that they have rehabilitated, yet they kill again. In effect we have been complacent in the murder of the innocent, all the while hollering about how we ought not execute killers just in case we might execute the innocent?

jd, in the other thread I stated that it was obvious that you are not hearing us. It is true in this thread also. What you fail to realise is that we do understand your point of view. But it is wrong.

In HIS service;
Jim

 

While there is the biblical precedent to support capital punishment, there is also the biblical precendent to show grace allowing room for repentance.

Two particular biblical murderers come to mind, Moses and David.

 

I agree with your interpretation.

I prefer to err on the side of grace.