Should Christians support the death penalty?

To Su Wei

I encourage you to take the time to read the entire thread. You may find it interesting.

thanks for the post

 

To bmerr

I sense you may not have read the entire thread either. Much of what you talk about has been covered.

My point is that Christians are nowhere told to seek or support the death of anyone. It goes against I Tim. 1:15-16, which says Christians should deal with violent people in the same manner that Christ dealt with Paul; with great patience, and mercy and grace.

Thanks for the post

 

To av1611jim

I can tell you have become upset over this discussion. Take a breath and let's not get personal, OK? I still love you brother.

 

jim

It is unwise and dangerous to live our lives according to how we feel about a particular issue. Murder, rape, child molestation is beyond repulsive. However, we cannot let our emotions overrule our judgment. We are prone to deception because of our sin and the fact we live in a fallen world. That is why God has revealed in His Word how we should live our lives and respond to these issues. Scripture is our only infalliable guide.

I have done my level best to stick the the texts of scripture under discussion. We are called to a higher standard of righteousness than that of the world, of secular governments. We ought to be able to rationally discuss scripture, and not waste our time trying to declare which of us is more outraged about these horrible crimes.

 

In reference to jim's final post on this thread:

Chose to follow the example of the man at that website

or

chose to follow the example of our Lord Jesus Christ, as commanded in I Tim. 1:15-16

I chose to follow the example of my Lord.

 

To Marcia

(You Said)

"Is your implication that those who don't agree with you or who are for the death penalty are not following Christ? "

No, It is not. It has nothing to do with whether you agree with me, but whether you agree with the clear teaching of scripture.

I am stating clearly that those who support the death penalty are not following the example of Jesus as explained in I Tim. 1:15-16. The example of patience which Jesus exhibited with Paul was specifically given to future believers for the purpose of demonstating (teaching) us how to deal with violent, unloveable people.

To support the death penalty is the eptiome of not having patience, longsuffering, mercy, grace. It is unseemly, and unChristlike to seek the death of anyone or to support the taking of another person's life.

 

To Marcia

If you are implying that I am questioning the salvation of a Christian who supports the death penalty, let me be clear that I am not.

The question is about being obedient to what God has revealed to us in scripture, even when we disagree with what it says. We shouldn't pick and chose (though most do) what we want to believe and what we want to ignore.

This passage in I Tim. is clear in what it teaches. All who understand that have to decide whether to be obedient or not, to have that same kind of patience and mercy and love or not.

 

To Marcia

(You Said)

"but I just don't see this passage as being applicable to the death penalty. I agree it is applicable to being patient with those you are witnessing to and teaching. That has nothing to do with the death penalty."

The context of I Tim. 1:15-16 is clear. Look at verses 9 and 10. Paul gives a long list of unrighteous men. This list includes those who kill their fathers and mothers and murderers.

He then says he has been entrusted with the "Glorious Gospel" and that he has been "strenghtened" for service. What service? Taking the gospel to these types of unrighteous men! Look at Paul's life and count how many times people tried to kill him.

He then says that he is the foremost sinner of all. Why? We know from Paul's background that he persecuted the church (Acts 8) and breathed threats and murders (Acts 9).

He then says that Jesus Christ had mercy. Jesus showed great patience with Paul for a specific reason. To demonstrate to future Christians that we should have the same kind of patience,mercy, love in dealing with people like Paul, the murderer, the foremost of all sinners.

He then tells Timothy that this same commandment has been entrusted to Him (and to us by way of example), to fight the good fight, to keep the faith and a good conscience.

What does this refer to if not back to having the same example in us that Christ had with Paul?

He then says to pray for all men, that such an attitude is pleasing to God, and that God desires all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

What does this refer to if not to having the same example in us that Christ had with Paul?

He then says for that he wants men to pray, without wrath or dissension. "Wrath" is a word specifically related to seeking punishment with an attitude of anger.

What does this refer to if not to having the same example in us that Christ had with Paul?

(you said)

"Using this reasoning, then we could say that God did not follow this passage because he executed Aninias and Sapphira in Acts 5; he also tells us not to pray for those "committing a sin leading to death" (1 Jn. 5.16)."

I have said repeatedly that only God has the perfect wisdom to execute the death penalty. I Tim. is not an example to God, it is an example to Christians.

The "sin leading to death" passage in I John is not specific and has caused much debate. What is the sin leading to death? John never says exactly. He appears to be referring to Christians that are continually living a life of sin. God takes their life so they will not be a detriment to the gospel. This may be similar to Paul's admonishment to the Christians at Corinth that because of their abuse of the Lord's Supper, "many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep." Sleep is a reference to death, there.

Are you saying that the I John passage means we should not pray for people that have committed murder, because murder leads to the death penalty and therefore it is "the sin leading to death?"

It simply cannot mean that because we have been commanded to pray for all men (I Tim. 2:1)

John says, 5:16, " If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death: I do not say that he should make request for this."

There are several possibilities for "this":

1. That we do not pray for those who have died to be brought back "to life".

2. That we do not pray that someone will die because of their sin. As you might expect, I favor this one.

3. That we do not pray for people who have comitted a sin leading to death (I really don't think this is a valid option because it contradicts other scripture)

John is talking about other Christians here, or at least those who are professing to be Christians.

I don't think you can build a case for the support of the death penalty from these verses.

thanks for the post

 

To Gold Dragon

(You said)

"I believe a Christian who supports the death penalty should do so as a regretable necessity that we seek to avoid, like war."

I don't see the death penalty as a necessity at all. We can protect our society by keeping people in prison for the rest of their lives. It is not the same as war, which brings up the "just war" debate and we don't really want to go there in this thread.

thanks for the post