Should God have compassion?

[OCC]

Thanks for sharing this johnp...really. "I have always known myself. I can remember as a kid I had a pretty low estimate of myself which went lower by the year way into adulthood.
The drug scene help with me finding people like me who shared their lives with me but outside I still could not look up at the straights. Lowest of the low me.
After I became a Christian I found that the situation concerning myself and my own self image was confirmed far worse than my imagination took me. He told me that all men are as one in this world and for the first time in my life I found I could look others in the eye as equals.
From looking down to looking up came as I was told that He loved me more than He loved Himself and that He had been willing to die for me. It was Christ who loved me and gave himself for me not me for Him. The Highest of the High for the lowest of the low."

 

[johnp.]

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by BobRyan:
Apparently you did not read that link.

In that Link Pastor Larry DOES NOT answer the question - rather he merely CLAIMS that on page 4 he addressed my TWO questions on Jonah 4.

But if you look on page 4 - you never see Pastor Larry EVER address those TWO questions. Rather he talks to some OTHER questions - questions about election and Nineveh. Questions I NEVER ASK because I know that Calvinists would love to sidetrack down a rabbit trail of that form INSTEAD of actually addressing the TWO pointed questions.

#1. WHAT is the ANSWER to God's POINTED question?
#2. WHAT are the REASONS for that ANSWER that GOD GIVES (IN THE TEXT OF JONAH 4) - and how would THOSE REASONS fit Calvinism.

Originally posted by Pastor Larry:

Bob, you are dishonest. I did answer the question. I said God's argument in Jonah is that he can have compassion on them because he is sovereign.

#1. I noticed you argued that you thought that is why God COULD have compassion. But I did not see your post quote the actual question "SHOULD I NOT have compassion" and say "YES YOU SHOULD" or "NO you SHOULD NOT".

In fact - I notice you have dodged that here "as well".

In other words INSTEAD of actually addressing the Bible question - the one God asks Jonah WHILE SPEAKING TO JONAH -- you simply repeat what you WISH He had said. You WISH that IN Jonah 4 you were reading "I CAN have mercy IF I WANT to because I am sovereign".

Failing to see God make that point IN THE CHAPTER - you simply "insert it" as if God was saying that Jonah.

It is instructive that you "quote nothing" from Jonah 4 to make your "insert".

#2. I also ask for SOME ATTENTION paid to the REASONS God gives IN Jonah 4 for the "IMPLIED YES" answer He argues for in His question.

In your latest dodge you claim that we should not THINK about questions that have EVIDENCE for the "implied yes" given IN THE TEXT because you think "rhetorical" means "don't think about it" as ins "pay no attention the arguments made in the question".

Such has never been the case for Jonah 4 and God's argument to Jonah.

Failing to find the "Romans 9 DETAILS" IN the Jonah 4 text - you ignore the details in Jonah 4 and just go to your views on Romans 9 "instead".

Instructive that Calvinism requires such an avoidance of the text.

Then having managed to "convince yourself" that avoiding the text is "needed by Calvinism" you then take the next illogical step and insist that in PAYING ATTENTION to the details in Jonah 4 we "dishonor God"

Pastor Larry said --

You need to quit "answering back to God." He has forbidden that

How you get turned around enough to go there - I can not fathom. Maybe it is a symptom of Calvinism.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by whatever:
Maybe this will be clearer.

God: Should I not have mercy on Nineveh?

Me: No, God, You are correct. You should NOT not have mercy on Nineveh.

Hmmm - that was Jonah's answer too!

Seems you two have a lot in common as to how you view God. You say to God "You SHOULD NOT have mercy on the wicked city"

Jonah agrees with you - and finds that pesky Arminian view of God just as displeasing as you do.

Jonah 4
1But it greatly displeased Jonah and he became angry.
2He prayed to the LORD and said, "Please LORD, was not this what I said while I was still in my own country? Therefore in order to forestall this I fled to Tarshish, for I knew that You are a gracious and compassionate God, slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness, and one who relents concerning calamity.
3"Therefore now, O LORD, please take my life from me, for death is better to me than life."

So far from "not understanding your stated response" I find YOUR response to actually be RECORDED in the text!

It is "instructive" just how closely Jonah's response matches Calvinism. Right up until Jonah claims that "God is PREDICTABLY MERCIFUL".

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by Jarthur001:
here is a hint Bob.


rhetorical question ...is a statement, stated as a question which neither expects nor requires an answer.

understand?

Here is a "better hint" - Rhetorical questions BY DEFINITION have an implied answer JUST as we see STATED IN THE TEXT in this case. Which is why we see the pattern of argument that uses Rhetorical questions to MAKE STATEMENTS as God does.

In other words - the DETAILS that HE GIVES IN HIS QUESTION - that Calvinists so INSIST on ignoring "for the good of the cause" -- SHOW that the implied answer is that God SHOULD have mercy for the REASONS HE GIVES IN the question asked!

Get it?

(That all seems pretty complicated if one is reading this from a Calvinist POV and MUST not admit to the obvious in the text -- but I think that for everyone else it is "obvious". )

Though I don't know if that claim above - applies to Lloyd.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Pastor Larry]

You are unreal, Bob. You make me laugh.

 

[whatever]

Originally posted by BobRyan:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by whatever:
Maybe this will be clearer.

God: Should I not have mercy on Nineveh?

Me: No, God, You are correct. You should NOT not have mercy on Nineveh.

Hmmm - that was Jonah's answer too!

Seems you two have a lot in common as to how you view God. You say to God "You SHOULD NOT have mercy on the wicked city"</font>[/QUOTE]Proof positive that you simply do not read what others say. Let's compare what I said (#1) to what you say that I said (#2)"

1. You should not not have mercy ...
2. You should not have mercy ...

Do you see the difference? Why is #1 longer than #2?

You have proven time and time again that, not only can you not be trusted to represent the Bible correctly, but you also cannot be trusted to represent others' views correctly. Therefore there is no point in addressing anything else that you have to say.

 

[BobRyan]

You are right "You should NOT NOT" completely slipped by me - good gimmick.

I will give that to you.

The idea that "You SHOULD NOT NOT" -- was your answer never occurred to me. I glossed over that "NOT NOT" detail almost as completely as the Calivnists have been glossing over the DETAILS IN GOD's arugment IN JONAH 4 for WHY HE SHOULD "NOTNOT"!

I wonder when Calvinists will be able to stop doing that as it is repeatedly POINTED OUT TO THEM that they are doing it?

But With that correction for me -- from you -- can we then say your answer is in a more common sense realm "you SHOULD have mercy" or are you really stuck on "you Should NOT NOT"??

IN Christ,

Bob

 

[whatever]

Hey Bob,

The fact remains that God did not tell Jonah that He (God) was required to have mercy on anyone. Jonah expected God to destroy Nineveh, and he went up to watch, and he was angry when he did not get the show that he was hoping for. God's point in chapter 4 is that He was not obligated to destroy Nineveh, and that He was free to have mercy on them if He so chose. That is why the "not" is so important. It is not a statement of God's obligation, it is a statement of God's freedom.

 

[BobRyan]

You know those "pesky Words of God" I keep trying to get you to address?? THe ones IN HIS statement to Jonah that you keep glossing over and ignoring because they are soooo inconvenient for your view???

Why not allow yourself to quote them AND fit what you just said INTO that context where you actually pay attention to what HE said IN Jonah 4???

Why is this so terrifying for you?

I keep pointing out those little statements God makes an you keep ducking....

Why??

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Since the Calvinist "game" so far is to ignore the ACTUAL words IN The text -- while continually "telling stories" about what is NOT IN THE TEXT of Jonah 44...

I guess it is up to me to keep showing WHAT GOD Said -- because as it turns out the Arminian view is HAPPY to read it!!

Jonah 4

9Then God said to Jonah, "Do you have good reason to be angry about the plant?" And he said, "I have good reason to be angry, even to death."
10Then the LORD said, "You had compassion on the plant for which you did not work and which you did not cause to grow, which came up overnight and perished overnight.

11"Should I not have compassion on Nineveh, the great city in which there are more than 120,000 persons who do not know the difference between their right and left hand, as well as many animals?"

Did you see "THE BOLD TYPE" yet?

It is BIG AND BOLD so I am sure the Arminans are gettin' it.

But still - no Calvinists brave enough to mention the REASONS GOD GIVES for why HE SHOULD have MERCY on the wicked city...

hmmmm -- wonder what that AVOIDANCE of God's Word indicates for Calivinism??

Any guesses?

Why is GOD's Word in this case so distasteful to Calvinism that it can not even BRING ITSELF to MENTION THEM??

(No matter how many times I point them out!!)

In THE REASONS that God gives above - does He SPECIFY HIS FREEDOM? Looooook closely now...

Read very carefully cause it is really going to surprise you... what REASONS does HE LIST?? "freedom"?? Did you see "Freedom" in that list??

It is not a statement of God's obligation, it is a statement of God's freedom.

THere "again" Calvinsts tell you what they WISH God had said!

"Jonah SHOULD I NOT BE FREE to show MERCY whenever I FEEL LIKE IT-- EVEN in this most horrid case? Shouldn't I??""

How much "nicer" if the text ACTUALLY SAID that!!

In Christ,

Bob

 

[whatever]

Originally posted by BobRyan:
You know those "pesky Words of God" I keep trying to get you to address?? THe ones IN HIS statement to Jonah that you keep glossing over and ignoring because they are soooo inconvenient for your view???

Why not allow yourself to quote them AND fit what you just said INTO that context where you actually pay attention to what HE said IN Jonah 4???

Why is this so terrifying for you?

I keep pointing out those little statements God makes an you keep ducking....

Why??

In Christ,

Bob

Dear Bob,

Why? It's simple.

Until you understand God's lesson to Jonah in chapter 4 there is no point in discussing what God said about the residents of Nineveh. When you see that God was establishing His freedom to show mercy, and not any obligation to show mercy, then His comments on Nineveh take on a different meaning.

Your friend,

whatever

 

[whatever]

Originally posted by BobRyan:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />
It is not a statement of God's obligation, it is a statement of God's freedom.

THere "again" Calvinsts tell you what they WISH God had said!

"Jonah SHOULD I NOT BE FREE to show MERCY whenever I FEEL LIKE IT-- EVEN in this most horrid case? Shouldn't I??""

How much "nicer" if the text ACTUALLY SAID that!!

In Christ,

Bob </font>[/QUOTE]Dear Bob,

It is exactly what the text says. All of your bloviating will not change that fact.

Your friend,

whatever

 

[johnp.]

'bloviating' oh very nice. Bloviating Bob.

john.

 

[Pastor Larry]

But still - no Calvinists brave enough to mention the REASONS GOD GIVES for why HE SHOULD have MERCY on the wicked city...

Still being dishonest Bob. I even pointed out to you where I answered your question. You tried to turn it around as if I didn't, but you were wrong to do so. I answered your question by pointing you to the words of the text.

Quit being dishonest. You don't have to like my answer, or anyone else's. But don't pretend like they weren't given. They were.

 

[BobRyan]

Post the LINK - SHOW yourself addressing the points GOD MAKES (I have only quoted it ten times)

So far - no answer at all to the REASONS GOD GAVE.

hmm -- how instructive.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by BobRyan:
Since the Calvinist "game" so far is to ignore the ACTUAL words IN The text -- while continually "telling stories" about what is NOT IN THE TEXT of Jonah 44...

I guess it is up to me to keep showing WHAT GOD Said -- because as it turns out the Arminian view is HAPPY to read it!!

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Jonah 4

9Then God said to Jonah, "Do you have good reason to be angry about the plant?" And he said, "I have good reason to be angry, even to death."
10Then the LORD said, "You had compassion on the plant for which you did not work and which you did not cause to grow, which came up overnight and perished overnight.

11"Should I not have compassion on Nineveh, the great city in which there are more than 120,000 persons who do not know the difference between their right and left hand, as well as many animals?"

Did you see "THE BOLD TYPE" yet?

It is BIG AND BOLD so I am sure the Arminans are gettin' it.

But still - no Calvinists brave enough to mention the REASONS GOD GIVES for why HE SHOULD have MERCY on the wicked city...

hmmmm -- wonder what that AVOIDANCE of God's Word indicates for Calivinism??

Any guesses?

Why is GOD's Word in this case so distasteful to Calvinism that it can not even BRING ITSELF to MENTION THEM??

(No matter how many times I point them out!!)

In THE REASONS that God gives above - does He SPECIFY HIS FREEDOM? Looooook closely now...

Read very carefully cause it is really going to surprise you... what REASONS does HE LIST?? "freedom"?? Did you see "Freedom" in that list??

It is not a statement of God's obligation, it is a statement of God's freedom.

THere "again" Calvinsts tell you what they WISH God had said!

"Jonah SHOULD I NOT BE FREE to show MERCY whenever I FEEL LIKE IT-- EVEN in this most horrid case? Shouldn't I??""

How much "nicer" if the text ACTUALLY SAID that!!

</font>[/QUOTE]See the "Bold type"??

It is pointing to the LIST of REASONS God GIVES as to why HE SHOULD have mercy.

Easy for an Arminian to read.

Just looking to see if a Calvinist can read it.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[whatever]

Dear Bob,

Sorry, but "baaa baaa baaa" beats "blah blah blah".

Your friend,

whatever

 

[Pastor Larry]

Bob, You are being dishonest. You know exactly where it is. I directed you to the words of God himself. Quit saying I didn't. That is blatant and inexcusable dishonesty.

 

[BobRyan]

The comic relief you guys are providing is going beyond the call of duty.

My compliments.

Pastor Larry -- try posting a link "with substance" that shows you actually SPEAKING to the Words of God as HE LISTED the REASONS for why He SHOULD have Mercy.

Notice that HE NEVER GIVES YOUR reasons -- which were that "He can do it if he wants to".

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Pastor Larry:

Bob, you are dishonest. I did answer the question. I said God's argument in Jonah is that he can have compassion on them because he is sovereign.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


(So I guess this is where you are free to stop pretending - and either post the link or start addressing the point).

In Christ,

Bob