Should health care insurance be a right?

[Martin]

Being obese is a condition that makes a person less healthy in general. Are you saying that the obese should not be treated for serious medical problems? That it's "their problem" because they're fat?

Yes you at least inferred that.

==I don't care what was or was not "inferred". This is a black and white textual discussion. There is no need for anything to be "inferred". A person who does not take care of themselves cannot expect the government to step in and solve their problems. It is not about "caring" or "not caring" it is about (a) the purpose of government and (b) personal responsibility. I know those are two values that are foreign to most liberals today but they are still important values.

 

[StefanM]

I propose the following:

1) Outlaw group health insurance policies.

2) Force everyone to undergo underwriting with permanent exclusions, pre-existing conditions, coverage denials, etc.

3) Triple the size of the national guard to deal with the inevitable rioting in the streets.

4) Sit back as universal health care is adopted almost overnight.

 

[JustChristian]

==I don't care what was or was not "inferred". This is a black and white textual discussion. There is no need for anything to be "inferred". A person who does not take care of themselves cannot expect the government to step in and solve their problems. It is not about "caring" or "not caring" it is about (a) the purpose of government and (b) personal responsibility. I know those are two values that are foreign to most liberals today but they are still important values.

So you're saying let them die. What would Jesus say? What will you say when your house burns down without insurance, you lose your job and you find that you have cancer? I should die because I deserve it? We're not talking about liberals and conservatives here. We're talking about human beings.

 

[Martin]

So you're saying let them die.

==Did I say that? No. Start reading what is being said and stop reading into what is being said.

What will you say when your house burns down without insurance, you lose your job and you find that you have cancer? I should die because I deserve it? We're not talking about liberals and conservatives here. We're talking about human beings.

==What does the federal government of the United States of America have to do with any of that? I am talking constitution and not opinion.

 

[David Lamb]

This is 2008, not 1808. Shouldn't the first question in a clinic or hospital be "Where does it hurt?", not "How will you be paying?".

I have historically been against regarding health care insurance as right; however, I am willing to reconsider my postion.

Let's hear the arguments for and against.

Thanks.

Here in the UK, the first question is "Where does it hurt?" (or something similar). Payment is from the "public purse", through taxation, though individuals are free to choose and pay for private healthcare if they wish.

 

[StefanM]

Here in the UK, the first question is "Where does it hurt?" (or something similar). Payment is from the "public purse", through taxation, though individuals are free to choose and pay for private healthcare if they wish.

If I disavow the American Revolution, can I get access to NHS? :laugh:

 

[rbell]

KenH, I am quite surprised at the change in you politically in the last few weeks.

The "Libertarian Ken" of months ago would have never argued for healthcare being a constitutional "right." He would have argued more for personal responsibility, etc.

I'm not slamming you...I'm just quite surprised at the distance you've put from your earlier libertarian positions.

 

[NiteShift]

Here in the UK, the first question is "Where does it hurt?" (or something similar). Payment is from the "public purse", through taxation, though individuals are free to choose and pay for private healthcare if they wish.

And I guess the question is; Is healthcare in the UK better than it was, for the majority? Are the taxpayers getting their money's worth?

One of the arguments made for cradle-to-grave, taxpayer-funded coverage here is that some people are not recieving needed treatments, or drugs that they need. Under UK's current system, does everybody recieve what they need and in a timely manner?

 

[KenH]

The "Libertarian Ken" of months ago would have never argued for healthcare being a constitutional "right."

Nor am I now. I simply asked a question.

Another question: Libertarianism was viable in an agrarian society. Is it as viable in a modern society where we are so clustered together and cannot live independently, by and large(grow/hunt our own food, make our own clothes, etc.)?

 

[rbell]

Nor am I now. I simply asked a question.

Another question: Libertarianism was viable in an agrarian society. Is it as viable in a modern society where we are so clustered together and cannot live independently, by and large(grow/hunt our own food, make our own clothes, etc.)?

I think the rub is the concept of "living independently."

If by that you mean, "it's difficult these days for you yourself to produce all the goods needed to survive (grow all my own food, make clothes, etc.)," then I agree. But that statement and the statement, "It's difficult these days for you to get by without government's help" are two entirely different statements.

 

[TomVols]

Another question: Libertarianism was viable in an agrarian society. Is it as viable in a modern society where we are so clustered together and cannot live independently, by and large(grow/hunt our own food, make our own clothes, etc.)?

Yes :thumbs:

 

[JustChristian]

==I don't care what was or was not "inferred". This is a black and white textual discussion. There is no need for anything to be "inferred". A person who does not take care of themselves cannot expect the government to step in and solve their problems. It is not about "caring" or "not caring" it is about (a) the purpose of government and (b) personal responsibility. I know those are two values that are foreign to most liberals today but they are still important values.

Well, you did say that the government should not help those who don't have medical insurance. I've always believed that in the best of all possible worlds the church should support the truely needy. I thionk you'll agree that this is no longer possible. So who helps the poor when they seriously need medical help? Doctors pro bono? A very few. You? If not then they will die as I said.