Should I leave my Baptist church because of woman pastor/elder?

[tyndale1946]

You know, this is unnecessary, uncalled for, and ungodly. What is "sounds like" other than it ticked you off and so you thought you would carelessly toss around such accusations.

For everyone else there are legitimate reasons for concern over this. My wife doesn't agree with it should we level the careless accusation of misogyny? Its not just men who disagree with woman pastors. Libbies ignore that fact.

I just have to tell you all this story and it is a doozie... A friend of mine who has been preaching over 60 years asked a friend of his who is also a preacher and has been preaching around the same amount of time to preach at his church... After service a woman walked up to him and said the Lord has called me to preach.

Around the same time a group of young kids, boys and girls were chasing each other around the church... He looked at her and said no that's true but you do have a congregation and its not in the pews... He pointed at the kids chasing each other and said... Woman!... There's your congregation!... Brother Glen

 

[Squire Robertsson]

At my home church, we had a sister who "pastored" the Primary 1-3 for over forty years.

After service a woman walked up to him and said the Lord has called me to preach.

Around the same time a group of young kids, boys and girls were chasing each other around the church... He looked at her and said no that's true but you do have a congregation and its not in the pews... He pointed at the kids chasing each other and said... Woman!... There's your congregation!... Brother Glen

 

[MartyF]

1 Timothy 2:12 NLT
[12] I do not let women teach men or have authority over them. Let them listen quietly.

Proverbs 31:1 NLT
[1] The sayings of King Lemuel contain this message, which his mother taught him.

 

[Baptist Believer]

...most men would find most female pastors to be intolerable, even if they didn't object to female pastors on doctrinal grounds...

Why would "most men" find a female pastor "intolerable?"

Do you also think that women find male pastors "intolerable?"

 

[agedman]

Why would "most men" find a female pastor "intolerable?"

Do you also think that women find male pastors "intolerable?"

It isn’t what is “tolerable” it is what is right.

God’s Word does not allow for women elders.

God’s Word does allow for women deacons as serving as needed in the health, safety, security, and other matters of physical needs.

God’s Word does allow for women teaching other ladies and children.

There is plenty women can do, much that they don’t.


I have yet to find a congregation with a women pastor that isn’t drifting into liberalism and embracing ungodly and perverted sinful living as appropriate for believers.

 

[Reformed]

For me the issue is not about peripherals it is whether Scripture provides a clear teaching on the matter. 1 Timothy 2:12 is an authoritative statement by an Apostle. Women are not to exercise authority over a man. I believe Paul's emphasis is on spiritual authority. Nothing has more authority then proclaiming "Thus says the Lord!" The issue is not whether women are capable of teaching or whether there are other teaching roles they can assume in the local church. Those who favor female pastors and elders like to lob those things into the debate like grenades. However, the final arbiter is always scripture. If that makes me a misogynist in the eyes of some, fine. Sticks and stones.

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[Calminian]

...There is room for conversation around women teaching and preaching in front of the fellowship of believers. .....

That's the problem though, there really isn't room for disagreement on this. You either trust Scripture or you don't. Women can do anything in life, including leadership positions, but God wants men to step up in Church leadership. It's important or God wouldn't have commanded it.

The idea that we only break over direct salvation issues is not a biblical idea, it's a human idea. The Bible is clear we can disagree on disputable matters—things that are not clear in Scripture. This isn't one of them. If something is clear in Scripture it's important. If a Pastor is not willing to take the whole council of God seriously, I would not recommend staying with him.

 

[Particular]

That's the problem though, there really isn't room for disagreement on this. You either trust Scripture or you don't. Women can do anything in life, including leadership positions, but God wants men to step up in Church leadership. It's important or God wouldn't have commanded it.

The idea that we only break over direct salvation issues is not a biblical idea, it's a human idea. The Bible is clear we can disagree on disputable matters—things that are not clear in Scripture. This isn't one of them. If something is clear in Scripture it's important. If a Pastor is not willing to take the whole council of God seriously, I would not recommend staying with him.

Church leadership and church teaching roles are two different arguments.
God has very clearly given some Christian women the spiritual gift of teaching. Men can learn from their teaching. To deny women, who have been gifted as teachers, the opportunity to teach is to tell God he made a mistake.
Be careful when denying what God has clearly gifted.

 

[Calminian]

....God has very clearly given some Christian women the spiritual gift of teaching. Men can learn from their teaching. .....

Where did you get this idea from?

 

[agedman]

Where did you get this idea from?

Was wondering the same thing.

 

[Salty]

.... Women are not to exercise authority over a man. I believe Paul's emphasis is on spiritual authority. Nothing has more authority then proclaiming "Thus says the Lord!" ...

I hope this is not going off the OP too much - but with your statement above - then should women be voting in a church business meeting?

 

[Calminian]

I hope this is not going off the OP too much - but with your statement above - then should women be voting in a church business meeting?

I think one could make that case that God wants men to step on in all matters of Church leadership. He raised up Deborah as a Judge over Israel but never would have made her a priest to tend to the tabernacle. That was a job for a particular tribe of men.

Perhaps God's thinking is, if both genders could lead in the church (yes I used the g word), men would rarely step up.

I do know that in today's world, women deprived of voting in Church would be a crisis for the ages! So we best no go there.

 

[agedman]

I hope this is not going off the OP too much - but with your statement above - then should women be voting in a church business meeting?

Actually, as I have pondered this very question two items come bubbling to be examined.

1) the authority of the family in public must come from a single voice. The unity of that communication is formed in the home by the marriage partners discussion and agreement.
2) the single women (not under the authority of husband or father) are to speak through the deacons concerning relief of grievances.
​

So, unlike the liberalists would condemn, the males are the authority in the church, including business meetings.

Now, in practice, this is (in modern society) not only not practiced, but certainly destained.

One example though is the selection of Barnabas and Saul to he mission field.

It was a decision by the elders and commissioned more obviously by the church.

 

[Particular]

Where did you get this idea from?

History and personal experience shows women have been given the spiritual gift of teaching. (It's not exclusive to men.)

1 Timothy 2:12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

The Greek tense is this:
I do not presently, at this moment, permit a woman to teach...
This means that Paul was being discerning since women were not educated in Roman culture.

Discerment is required today.

 

[agedman]

History and personal experience shows women have been given the spiritual gift of teaching. (It's not exclusive to men.)

1 Timothy 2:12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

The Greek tense is this:
I do not presently, at this moment, permit a woman to teach...
This means that Paul was being discerning since women were not educated in Roman culture.

Discerment is required today.

First, women were educated in the culture. Social standings regarded educated women a value. However, certain privileges remained male.

Second, 1 Timothy isn’t time constrained in the matter, for Paul never reversed the statement, therefore it continues.

I will state that in every church I have worked to resolve issues, the women were the most underhanded, cunning, and less forgiving in comparison to the men.

Once a man regained the authority of speaking for the family and the gripping was no longer tolerated, most issues were resolved.

Men don’t need to ignore women, but neither do women need to exercise their assumed authority in the church.

Btw, there was no Sunday School a few hundred years ago, and college institutions did not allow women to teach bible courses.

 

[Particular]

First, women were educated in the culture. Social standings regarded educated women a value. However, certain privileges remained male.

Second, 1 Timothy isn’t time constrained in the matter, for Paul never reversed the statement, therefore it continues.

I will state that in every church I have worked to resolve issues, the women were the most underhanded, cunning, and less forgiving in comparison to the men.

Once a man regained the authority of speaking for the family and the gripping was no longer tolerated, most issues were resolved.

Men don’t need to ignore women, but neither do women need to exercise their assumed authority in the church.

Btw, there was no Sunday School a few hundred years ago, and college institutions did not allow women to teach bible courses.

Again, I am speaking to the fact that God gives certain women the spiritual gift of teaching.
Since we are speaking anecdotally, I have been in small churches where the man doing the teaching was not given the gift of teaching. Yet there was a woman who was clearly gifted and more biblically solid than the man. In that situation, the woman should have taught while the men lead the congregation in discipline of disobedient members.
I believe Paul and Christ Jesus would agree. God gave this woman a gift and she was being denied the opportunity to use the gift.
Do you wonder why there are so many women in missions? It is because there they can utilize the gifts God gave them.

 

[Salty]

I have also heard that if a man votes yes - his wife votes no - than in essence, she has cancelled out his vote?
Thoughts?

 

[Reformed]

I hope this is not going off the OP too much - but with your statement above - then should women be voting in a church business meeting?

Depends who you ask. If you are into the Patriarchy movement the answer is "no". I have no issue with women voting since it is not a matter of exercising spiritual authority.

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[Calminian]

Depends who you ask. If you are into the Patriarchy movement the answer is "no". I have no issue with women voting since it is not a matter of exercising spiritual authority....

Some might argue voting as the very top of the authority chain. It is the electorate that appoints all elders.

 

[agedman]

Again, I am speaking to the fact that God gives certain women the spiritual gift of teaching.
Since we are speaking anecdotally, I have been in small churches where the man doing the teaching was not given the gift of teaching. Yet there was a woman who was clearly gifted and more biblically solid than the man. In that situation, the woman should have taught while the men lead the congregation in discipline of disobedient members.
I believe Paul and Christ Jesus would agree. God gave this woman a gift and she was being denied the opportunity to use the gift.
Do you wonder why there are so many women in missions? It is because there they can utilize the gifts God gave them.

I agree that God gives according to His purpose. One of the qualifications for both deacon and elder is the ability to teach (not lecture).

However, the assembly is not the world systems.

The assembly is reflective of the home.

The husband is the “covering” (my term) in which the “covering” over the daughter is given by the father to the husband. This is seen in the typical wedding ceremonies when the bride is “given away.”

It comes down to the principle of the authority.

God instituted male authority, and man has to come to terms with that responsibility. That in no manner diminished the women’s importance, so this is why the women and their husbands meet in the home, a decision is reached, and the home speaks with that single authority.

Perhaps the single (IMO) most outstanding example is seen in the statement by Joshua, “As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”

In my opinion, of all sadnesses, one that is ruinous is the husband that has relinquished the authority of the home by betrayal or neglect to a bobtailed bossy busybody boisterous wife.

Worse is the domineering doofus who is too dim witted to realize he isn’t a leader, but is better fitted for doom.

Blessed is the home when God is there, and all thrive in Him.