Should Methamphetamine be Legalized?

[KenH]

Originally posted by macitruth:
That means that we have liberty and can do as we see fit as long as it doesn't hurt someone else because that would not be justice.

Then you should agree with me that the government shouldn't be engaging in drug prohibition. Otherwise, you are only giving lip service to the concept of liberty from government intrusion as so many so-called conservatives and liberals do today.

 

[fromtheright]

Ken,

2) During alcohol prohibition, alcohol was brewed next door in bathtubs. Do you see that still going on in your neighbor's bathtub?

Bathtubs? Not that I know of, but people do brew alcohol at home. And alcohol is available at the corner market now. Is that what you want--meth available at the local market??? Are you equating alcohol and this garbage? Others have repeatedly pointed out the pharmacological facts about this drug and you seem to have repeatedly/constantly ignored those posts/points.

 

[fromtheright]

Ken,

Then you should agree with me that the government shouldn't be engaging in drug prohibition.

Your response again muddies up what you're responding to: is it drug prohibition in general or federal government? Again, the article to which you have pointed out that you want us to respond to doesn't distinguish. Debating this with you is like trying to step on a catfish.

 

[macitruth]

I will never have human children. And I'll say what I want. Maybe you want your Big Daddy/Big Mother government to take away my right to free speech?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah, I guess it's easy for someone who doesn't have any children to hold to a position that completely abandons these helpless victims. Say what you want, that doesn't make it true. Yes Ken, in fact it's not just me! All of us parents who care about our children are really just a big bunch of nazi's who want to take away your right to free speech.

 

[macitruth]

Debating this with you is like trying to step on a catfish.

FTR... I like you!

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by macitruth:
I want my government to have the power to protect me and my children.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

"A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have." - Gerald Ford

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by fromtheright:
Your response again muddies up what you're responding to: is it drug prohibition in general or federal government?

I am against drug prohibition in general. Since I don't know what powers the fifty state constitutions giver to their respective state governments, when discussing the constitutionality of prohibition, I am referring only the the federal constitution.

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by macitruth:
Yeah, I guess it's easy for someone who doesn't have any children to hold to a position that completely abandons these helpless victims.

1. Having human children wouldn't change my position one iota.

2. I never advocated abandoning anyone.

 

[macitruth]

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

So which liberty is it I'm in favor of giving up....OH YES the liberty to use drugs, neglect and endanger my kids, and possibly my neighbors, firends and coworkers as well....

"A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have." - Gerald Ford
[/QUOTE]
No one on here has in the least bit implied that our government should give us everything we want.

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by macitruth:
the liberty to use drugs, neglect and endanger my kids, and possibly my neighbors, firends and coworkers as well

No is forcing you to use drugs, macitruth, not even an aspirin. You should stop wanting to use the government to impose your will on others.

 

[fromtheright]

KenH,

Originally posted by KenH:

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

"A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have." - Gerald Ford

Here we go again with Ken: argument by epigram. When the points are difficult, ignore them, change the subject, confuse the subject, or trot out a quote.

When some point out that government's duty is to protect us Ken asks where it is in the Constitution?

When some point out the deadly effects of this drug, Ken ignores them.

When some try to argue government's role, Ken can't decide whether he wants to argue government's role or the federal government's role.

When some argue that government's duty is to protect us (that's funny, I thought that was the duty of the police), Ken throws out a Franklin quote.

I'm through trying to catch this catfish.

Good night'chall.

 

[KenH]

Yeah, ftr, you had best quit while you are behind.

 

[fromtheright]

While I'm behind what? I can't figure out where you are to know if I'm ahead or behind.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Originally posted by fromtheright:
I'm through trying to catch this catfish.

Good night'chall.

I prefer seals anyway.

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by fromtheright:
While I'm behind what? I can't figure out where you are to know if I'm ahead or behind.

You have never proven the libertarian position to be incorrect - either on practical grounds or on ideological grounds concerning the proper role of government in a free society that is safeguarded from Big Mother/Big Daddy Government.

 

[TomVols]

Several bromides about legalizing meth that need debunking:

All dangerous clandestine meth labs in residential neighborhoods would close

Legalization of tobacco and alcohol hasn't stopped illegal production of either.

All dangerous street gangs would be out of the meth business

See above.

Every dime currently spent on meth prohibition could be spent on real crime;

That fallacy could be used to talk about rape prvention, smoking prevention, national defense, etc.

Meth addicts would have no legal disincentive to seek help;

This fallacy assumes the only reason meth addicts don't seek help is because they are fearful of the legal consequences. Is there a mad rush of tobacco addicts, sex addicts, and alcoholics rushing for treatment? Of course not.

The manufacture of meth would be safe and produce a consistent product

..because the governement and/or private sector regulation always ensures safe and consistent production.

Toxic waste from meth production would be safely disposed

Again, more clap-trap about governmental or private bureacracy. This argument falls regarding waste disposal regarding trash, nuclear materials, etc.

This has to be one of the most logically impotent arguments I've heard in a long time. I'm for deregulation of an awful lot, but if you're going to make an argument for legalization of meth, make a better one than this.

 

[LadyEagle]

Well, praise God! I can finally issue the 10-page warning! This thread will be closed no sooner than 05:00 a.m. E.T. by one of the moderators.

LE

 

[LadyEagle]

From Street Drugs dot org:

Methamphetamine is a powerful stimulant that activates certain systems in the brain. It is closely related chemically to amphetamine, but the central nervous system effects of methamphetamine are greater. Both drugs have some medical uses, primarily in the treatment of obesity, but their therapeutic use is limited. The central nervous system (CNS) actions that result from taking even small amounts of methamphetamine include increased wakefulness, increased physical activity, decreased appetite, increased respiration, hypothermia, and euphoria. Other CNS effects include irritability, insomnia, confusion, tremors, convulsions, anxiety, paranoia, and aggressiveness. Hyperthermia and convulsions can result in death.

Illicit methamphetamine, which is almost exclusively methamphetamine hydrochloride, is sold in powder, ice, and tablet forms. Powder methamphetamine, the most common form available in the United States, is produced domestically and also is smuggled into the country from Mexico. Traditionally, Asian-produced ice was almost exclusively found in Guam, Hawaii, and parts of California; however, increased domestic production of this form of methamphetamine has increased availability to several other areas of the country previously untouched by exposure to ice. Methamphetamine tablets, primarily manufactured in Burma, have been smuggled into the United States, especially to northern California and the Los Angeles area.

 

[Phillip]

Originally posted by TomVols:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />The manufacture of meth would be safe and produce a consistent product

..because the governement and/or private sector regulation always ensures safe and consistent production. </font>[/QUOTE]Good answer. When Oklahoma adopted the death penalty the FDA stopped it for two years for testing to ensure that the lethal injection chemicals were both "safe" and "effective". No joke!