Should minor parties/independent candidates be banned from the ballot?

[KenH]

When you get your message out and people believe in it, access to the ballot will follow.

You don't know much about ballot access laws, do ya?

 

[Ivon Denosovich]

I have a higher calling than mere politics.

No, you don't. There is no higher calling than God's: get over yourself, Reverend.

 

[saturneptune]

I have a higher calling than mere politics. I am consciously not involved in politics aside from my appearance at the voting booth.

Thats amazing. When you were on a rant about war in Iraq, and I asked you what you had done to serve the country, that is the exact response you gave.

 

[Pastor Larry]

I know enough to know that when you have a large percentage of the population behind you, ballot access is not that difficult. There will be an uprising if you are not on the ballot, or able to be written in. The problem is that third parties don't want to do the spade work of getting people on their side before that; they want to do it backwards.

I think your desire for an electable third party is clouding some of your thinking here. I would love to have an electable third party choice (though I think there should be a run off between the top two to have a president who is elected by a majority. Many democracies do this with no problem). But I don't think we should sidestep the need to see the party actually get a following.

If the party wants to spend their time and money on ballot access rather than on getting followers, that's up to them. It just seems backwards to me.

 

[Pastor Larry]

No, you don't. There is no higher calling than God's: get over yourself, Reverend.

What? I say I have a higher calling, and you say I don't. (To begin with, How would you know?).

Then you say the highest calling is God's. Which was my point. God has called me to work for a higher goal than political issues. But you say I don't have a higher calling. So you really make no sense here.

As for getting over myself, I did that long ago.

 

[Ivon Denosovich]

deleted post

 

[Ivon Denosovich]

Your calling is no higher than someone who is called to go into politics, thus the statement:

I have a higher calling than mere politics.

... is untrue and arrogant.

God has called me to work for a higher goal than political issues.

God hasn't NOT called you to do any such thing. God has called ALL Christians to promote truth in every aspect of life including politics. You DO have a political calling (AS DO ALL CHRISTIANS), NOT a higher one.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Thats amazing. When you were on a rant about war in Iraq, and I asked you what you had done to serve the country, that is the exact response you gave.

I am not sure I have ever been on a rant about anything, much less the war in Iraq, but perhaps that's definitional. But the fact is that the answer is the same no matter what. I do have a higher calling, and that affects the choices I make and the things that I do. Why do you think that is hard for people to understand?

 

[Pastor Larry]

Your calling is no higher than someone who is called to go into politics, thus the statement: ... is untrue.

No, the statement is true in two respects. First, my calling is higher than it would be for me to go into politics. I have a higher calling than politics. Second, there is no doubt that the calling to make disciples is a call for every Christian no matter his occupation. So for a politician, his or her highest calling is to make disciples.

In addition, it is truly a sad state on our Christian faith when politics is considered equal to making disciples. It's no wonder the church is so un-salty in this age.

God hasn't NOT called you to do any such thing.

How would you possibly know what God has called me to do? Do you have a special line to God? If you do, let me know because I have a few things I would like you to ask him.

God has called ALL Christians to promote truth in every aspect of life including politics.

Yes. So far as I know, I have never said otherwise.

 

[saturneptune]

I am not sure I have ever been on a rant about anything, much less the war in Iraq, but perhaps that's definitional. But the fact is that the answer is the same no matter what. I do have a higher calling, and that affects the choices I make and the things that I do. Why do you think that is hard for people to understand?

Your calling is no higher or lower than anyone else's. God calls everyone to a certain vocation. In your case, it is pastor. Maybe the guy down the road is a plumber. Maybe the person across the street was called to keep us free by serving in the Army. None is better or worse than the next. They are all callings of God.

The only job title that comes to mind of a pastor on a pedestal is Pharisee.

 

[Ivon Denosovich]

All Christians have a political calling, Pastor Larry, thus rendering statements such as this:

I have a higher calling than mere politics

...wrong.

 

[Ivon Denosovich]

Your calling is no higher or lower than anyone else's. God calls everyone to a certain vocation. In your case, it is pastor. Maybe the guy down the road is a plumber. Maybe the person across the street was called to keep us free by serving in the Army. None is better or worse than the next. They are all callings of God.

The only job title that comes to mind of a pastor on a pedestal is Pharisee.

Amen! Preach, saturneptune.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Your calling is no higher or lower than anyone else's. God calls everyone to a certain vocation. In your case, it is pastor. Maybe the guy down the road is a plumber. Maybe the person across the street was called to keep us free by serving in the Army. None is better or worse than the next. They are all callings of God.

The only job title that comes to mind of a pastor on a pedestal is Pharisee.

Pharisees weren't pastors. But that's a side issue. If you know me, you know I am certainly not a pedestal, but let me remind of a few things.

First, as I have already pointed out, I was speaking of my calling. For me to be a plumber or a king would be a step down.

Second, if there is no higher calling, then why does God said that a pastor who rules well, especially in preaching and teaching, is worthy of double honor? God does not say that about any other calling in life. He also says of teachers that we will be judged by a higher standard, again something that he does not say of any other occupation. So it does seem that God does give extra weight to the calling of pastor and we would do well to remember that.

That does not in the least denigrate any other calling in life, and nothing I have said can legitimately be construed to mean that.

 

[Pastor Larry]

All Christians have a political calling, Pastor Larry, thus rendering statements such as this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Larry
I have a higher calling than mere politics


...wrong.

Would you care to support this with the word of God?

I know of no calling in the Scripture to be involved in politics. And certainly no place where any call is higher than making disciples. It is clear, from Scripture, that God places a high priority on the calling of pastor to his church. We would do well to remember that.

Can you tell me why I should take time away from making disciples to get involved in politics?

 

[KenH]

The problem is that third parties don't want to do the spade work of getting people on their side before that

And just how many minor parties have you labored in, PL? How many?

Your ignorance on this subject is apparent to all.

 

[Pastor Larry]

And just how many minor parties have you labored in, PL? How many?

None. Why? How is that relevant?

Your ignorance on this subject is apparent to all.

Probably not, since you have not been able to demonstrate it.

Listen, here's the point: If I were starting a third party, or trying to help get a third party going, I would work from the ground up. The national party and national presence in elections follows upon grass roots. Not the other way around. If you disagree, fine. Do it your way. We see how well that has been working, which I think gives plenty of vindication to what I have been saying. The fact that your only answer seems to be to call me ignorant, without benefit of support, seems also to vindicate my position.

 

[Ivon Denosovich]

Would you care to support this with the word of God?

Oh, I see, Mr-Higher-Calling, doesn't have chapter and verse to prove his calling is higher but demands the same of others. My bad, Mr-Higher-Calling.

And certainly no place where any call is higher than making disciples.

And part of making disciples IS empowering them with a proper political perspective: I take it you're not so stupid that you don't know that. Your calling is political too.

 

[KenH]

1) None. Why? How is that relevant?


2) If I were starting a third party, or trying to help get a third party going, I would work from the ground up.

1) Thanks for admitting that you have no expertise in this area of building a third party. Score one for me! :thumbs:

2) The party of which I am a dues paying member, the Libertarian Party, has been doing this since its inception. If you had any knowledge about this minor party you would have known this. Score another one for me. :thumbs:

KenH - 2
Pastor Larry - 0

 

[Ivon Denosovich]

In addition, it is truly a sad state on our Christian faith when politics is considered equal to making disciples.

It's a truly sad state on our Christian faith when politics isn't considered equal to making disciples.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Oh, I see, Mr-Higher-Calling, doesn't have chapter and verse to prove his calling is higher but demands the same of others. My bad, Mr-Higher-Calling.

If you are reading along, you will note that I offered two passages in support of my premise, as well as emphasized that it is "my calling" I am talking about, not anyone elses.

And part of making disciples IS empowering them with a proper political perspective: I take it you're not so stupid that you don't know that.

No, not really. Our job is to make disciples of Christ, not adherents of a political philosophy.

I believe disciples of Christ will have certain views on moral issues like abortion and homosexuality. There is no Christian view on political issues, per se, at least that I have been convinced of. The more I listen to you guys talk about politics, the more I am convinced that the NT was accurate in its absence of political comments in a system far worse than ours.

Your calling is political too.

How so?