Should people on the no-fly list be able to buy guns? Yes.

[Revmitchell]

It seems simple enough: If the federal government, based on intelligence or policing, puts a person on its watch list of suspected terrorists or decrees that he or she is too dangerous to be allowed on an airplane, then surely it would also be foolish to let that person buy a firearm in the United States. Makes sense, doesn't it?

That was the thrust of a proposed law by Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) that her Senatecolleagues rejected last week amid much political furor. The idea was resuscitated byPresident Obama in his Oval Office address Sunday evening. "What could possibly be the argument for allowing a terrorist suspect to buy a semiautomatic weapon?" the president asked.

When he puts it that way, it does sound pretty stupid. But, in fact, there are several strong arguments against the proposal.

What's more, it's not clear how much impact Feinstein's law would have. The broader watch list, which is actually a database maintained by the FBI's Terrorist Screening Center, apparently had about 480,000 names on it in 2011, according to the FBI, and it has since swelled to about 1.1 million names, according to the ACLU. Of those, the vast majority are noncitizens living overseas; the number of American citizens on the list is believed to be fewer than 10,000 people.

That's important because federal law already bars gun sales to most people who are not U.S. citizens or lawful permanent residents or holders of valid visas, which means the vast majority of the people on the suspected terror list would already be barred from buying a firearm in the U.S. even without Feinstein's law. That leaves us with about 10,000 American citizens (and some legal residents) who, under the proposed law, would be barred from exercising a constitutional right. That gives us pause.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorials/la-ed-terrorist-watch-list-20151207-story.html

 

[Zaac]

This perfectly illustrates the heights of hypocrisy in the political parties. For weeks now, all I've heard is we can't allow the 10,000 Syrian refugees in (and I don't think it's coincidental that it's the same number) because if just one is an operative of ISIS/ISIL or whatever folks are calling them today, they could wreak havoc. "We can't take a chance" is what folks were saying.

So now we've got 10,000 American citizens who should be barred from purchasing guns until they can be well vetted. And the same folks who think just one refugee could wreak havoc don't seem to think that one crazed American with a gun can't wreak havoc. Why is THIS a chance they are willing to take?Rolleyes

Absurd.

 

[Revmitchell]

I think the no fly list should be challenged in court.

 

[carpro]

This perfectly illustrates the heights of hypocrisy in the political parties. For weeks now, all I've heard is we can't allow the 10,000 Syrian refugees in (and I don't think it's coincidental that it's the same number) because if just one is an operative of ISIS/ISIL or whatever folks are calling them today, they could wreak havoc. "We can't take a chance" is what folks were saying.

So now we've got 10,000 American citizens who should be barred from purchasing guns until they can be well vetted. And the same folks who think just one refugee could wreak havoc don't seem to think that one crazed American with a gun can't wreak havoc. Why is THIS a chance they are willing to take?Rolleyes

Absurd.

These are American citizens. You are advocating taking away their constitutional rights without due process. Are you sure you want to go down that path?

 

[Zaac]

These are American citizens.

Yes, that's one of the indicators of why it qualifies as DOMESTIC terrorism.

You are advocating taking away their constitutional rights without due process. Are you sure you want to go down that path?

I'm advocating using the same power to take away their ability to buy a gun that was used to keep them off the planes. If Homeland security can keep folks off a plane, they can certainly keep the same folks from purchasing guns,fertilizer, ammo or what not.

 

[carpro]

I'm advocating using the same power to take away their ability to buy a gun that was used to keep them off the planes. If Homeland security can keep folks off a plane, they can certainly keep the same folks from purchasing guns,fertilizer, ammo or what not.

So , your answer is YES. You are in favor of taking away their constitutional rights without due process.

Flying on an airplane is not a constitutional right, and are notoriously inaccurate.

"JetBlue Airways is apologizing for a "computer glitch" it blames for a family being told their 18-month-old daughter was on a government no-fly list.

The parents, who reportedly would not disclose their last names for fear of repercussions, and their infant, identified only as Riyanna, had boarded JetBlue Flight 510 from Fort Lauderdale, Florida, to Newark, New Jersey, on Tuesday evening when they say an airline employee ask them to get off the plane.

"I said, 'For what?'" Riyanna's mother told CNN affiliate WPBF. "He said, 'It is not you or your husband. Your daughter was flagged as no fly.'"

 

[Zaac]

So , your answer is YES. You are in favor of taking away their constitutional rights without due process.

You mean the way that their Constitutional rights had already been taken away? You didn't seem to have any problem with due process when it was cops murdering folks and prosecutors helping to make sure due process didn't take place. You only seem to want due process when it comes to guns. Interesting.

Flying on an airplane is not a constitutional right, you know.

Using a gun to shoot up Planned Parenthood or murder folks while they are having Bible Study aren't Constitutional rights either. But if it can save one life...you know like folks on the right were saying about keeping out the 10,000 refugees? If keeping them out can save one life...

 

[carpro]

You mean the way that their Constitutional rights had already been taken away? .

So, your answer is YES?

Without the idiotic rants, that's all I really wanted to know.

I'll remember that and remind you of it at some point in the future.

 

[Revmitchell]

No US citizen should be refused the ability to travel by any mean unless there is clear evidence that they are a threat. Suspicion is not clear evidence. Evidence would be they have been proven to act in a manner that would put a flight in jeopardy.

 

[Zaac]

No US citizen should be refused the ability to travel by any mean unless there is clear evidence that they are a threat. Suspicion is not clear evidence. Evidence would be they have been proven to act in a manner that would put a flight in jeopardy.

Amazing how some of you can display something akin to love when it when comes to folks buying guns, but when it comes to displaying that type of love for people, your hearts shrink to a size less than the Grinch's.Rolleyes

 

[just-want-peace]

Still trying to set a record for "DUMB" comments, are you ZAAC??

 

[777]

Yeah, well, he proposed a couple of weeks ago to revoke the 1A when it comes to talk radio and FOX News. Everything is relative when the blinders are on.

I think if people on the no fly list can work in the WH, they can purchase fire arms. The no fly list is inaccurate and incomplete and shouldn't abridge any constitutional rights.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Well Zaac, I have to agree with the Rev here. For the record, I am for Syrian refugee immigration and I am also for preserving the rights of those who are on the terror watch list and no-fly lists. (NOTE: The two different lists are being conflated by politicians and the media.)

There has been lots of hand-wringing about a little more than 2,000 gun sales to people on the watch list between 2004-2014. The politicians and news media folks assume that the statistic means that more than 2,000 "terrorists" are running around with heavy weapons. However that is almost certainly not true.

How can I say that? Because I used to be on the terror watch list 2005-2009 and I purchased three firearms myself - a pump shotgun, a 9mm pistol, and a .22 target pistol. Hardly the "assault rifles" (whatever they think those are) the media and gun control advocates would have you believe.

I ended up in the list because my company bought a last-minute airline ticket to a Texas border-town to deliver some materials to a client before a deadline. That apparently set off some sort of suspicious-behavior protocols. (For what it is worth, at least one other employee of our firm also ended up on the list.)

When I discovered I was on the list because of the extraordinary difficultly I had flying after that and an airline employee discretely indicating I was on the list, I starting investigating how to get cleared. There is no official recourse or appeal to get off of the list once you get placed on it. The government would have to initiate an investigation in order to be cleared. A citizen has no way to request an investigation unless one is needed for security purposes (a security clearance for work, for instance). After three years of frustration, it suddenly dawned on me how to force an investigation - I applied for a conceal-carry permit. It worked like a charm.

All that being said, the list should not be used as a standard for anything. When you get upset about people on the watch list buying firearms, you are talking about people like me. There may indeed be some bad folks on the list, but I am skeptic. If there was real evidence, I think they would be on other lists.

 

[Zaac]

Still trying to set a record for "DUMB" comments, are you ZAAC??

You're obviously under the impression that I care that dumb people call things dumb. You guys are just languishing for some more company in the realm of dumb so you call everything dumb.

There, there.

 

[Zaac]

Well Zaac, I have to agree with the Rev here. For the record, I am for Syrian refugee immigration and I am also for preserving the rights of those who are on the terror watch list and no-fly lists. (NOTE: The two different lists are being conflated by politicians and the media.)

There has been lots of hand-wringing about a little more than 2,000 gun sales to people on the watch list between 2004-2014. The politicians and news media folks assume that the statistic means that more than 2,000 "terrorists" are running around with heavy weapons. However that is almost certainly not true.

How can I say that? Because I used to be on the terror watch list 2005-2009 and I purchased three firearms myself - a pump shotgun, a 9mm pistol, and a .22 target pistol. Hardly the "assault rifles" (whatever they think those are) the media and gun control advocates would have you believe.

I ended up in the list because my company bought a last-minute airline ticket to a Texas border-town to deliver some materials to a client before a deadline. That apparently set off some sort of suspicious-behavior protocols. (For what it is worth, at least one other employee of our firm also ended up on the list.)

When I discovered I was on the list because of the extraordinary difficultly I had flying after that and an airline employee discretely indicating I was on the list, I starting investigating how to get cleared. There is no official recourse or appeal to get off of the list once you get placed on it. The government would have to initiate an investigation in order to be cleared. A citizen has no way to request an investigation unless one is needed for security purposes (a security clearance for work, for instance). After three years of frustration, it suddenly dawned on me how to force an investigation - I applied for a conceal-carry permit. It worked like a charm.

All that being said, the list should not be used as a standard for anything. When you get upset about people on the watch list buying firearms, you are talking about people like me. There may indeed be some bad folks on the list, but I am skeptic. If there was real evidence, I think they would be on other lists.

Baptist Believer, you're the perfect example of why the Christian response should not be the same as that of the lost. It often times takes us being on the wrong end of things to make us realize that we want two sets of rules. One set for other folks and another set for ourselves (not saying that of you). When something happens to us, we realize how bad it is to be in that position. But when it's happening to someone else we can quickly find reasons for why it's okay.

Perhaps situations like this are why God says to love your neighbor as you love yourself.

 

[Revmitchell]

There has been lots of hand-wringing about a little more than 2,000 gun sales to people on the watch list between 2004-2014. The politicians and news media folks assume that the statistic means that more than 2,000 "terrorists" are running around with heavy weapons. However that is almost certainly not true.

Oh no the politicians like Obama and his ilk do not believe it means there are 2,000 terrorists running around. In fact they know otherwise. They are just trying to use this as a backdoor to get their gun control. This is not an honest concern for them. It is a political tool.

 

[Zaac]

Oh no the politicians like Obama and his ilk do not believe it means there are 2,000 terrorists running around. In fact they know otherwise. They are just trying to use this as a backdoor to get their gun control. This is not an honest concern for them. It is a political tool.

You mean like the GOP and all those on the right who want to block 10,000 Syrian refugees know that the Paris terrorists all came from Belgium and France and not Syria?