Should some beats be avoided?

[DHK]

However, what is the difference? You closed your eyes and rejoiced. That was a fleshly response and wrong according to many here.

And why is that a fleshly response?
I close my eyes and pray. Is that also a fleshly response to the Pastor's request to do so?

 

[Bro. James]

Peace

Seems to have swayed you, Bro., your words are bristling. Apparently, I offended you. Sorry, not my intention. I was just relating why I believe what I believe over the past 40 years experience.

I would still like the NT scripture which authorized musical intruments.

See you at Bema.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

[TCGreek]

Culture! Culture! Culture! The beats should be culturally regulated--suppose we take the Gospel to a drumbeating/dancing tribe in Africa, should we prohibit them from drumbeating/dancing because we don't do that in the West?

 

[DHK]

I still don't understand how, if the world likes something, it makes it unGodly. I have a pretty skirt I tried on last week to see if it was something I wanted to get to wear for church. It's a long black moleskin skirt that turned out to be very flattering. Another woman was there and said "Oh - I like that skirt!" Should I have not bought it? does it mean that it was now identifying with the world?

If your skirt is modest, covers most of your body, it will glorify God.
If your skirt is half way up from your knees it will follow the world who like to expose their skin and their sexuality. There is a difference between the Godly and the ungodly, the saved and the unsaved.

How can a song - even a song that sings of Christ and has a wonderful melody

Do you think that the harp-playing of David had a wonderful melody? What kind of beat do you think was in his music?

- be "worldly" and an enemy of Christ just because someone of the world likes it? I don't think that's a good measuring stick of whether something is Godly or not.

"If the world hates me it will hate you." Don't you think the corolloray of that statement is also true.
If the world loves the devil's children, it will love the music of the devil also. Whose side are you on? You can't be on both. You must decide. Not all music is Godly. The Word of God points that out very clearly.

Hey - the Jehovah's Witnesses that came to the door the other day raved about the KJV. I guess that's now an unGodly Bible.

We can learn from other religions. It is sad but true, but other relgions are often more dedicated to their gods than Christians who have the truth, and Christians ought to be ashamed of it.

I know a Sikh who tithes his "time" and thus spends 2.4 hours every morning praying.
The Muslims (more devout ones) pray five times a day. Just the prayer time alone takes about 20 minutes. That adds up to one hour and forty minutes. If they decide to go to a mosque travel time is extra. How much time does the average Christian take to pray.
The J.W.'s are constantly out on the streets witnessing.
Every Mormon is required to do missionary service, and on their own pay.

Other religions put most Christians to shame.

 

[DHK]

Culture! Culture! Culture! The beats should be culturally regulated--suppose we take the Gospel to a drumbeating/dancing tribe in Africa, should we prohibit them from drumbeating/dancing because we don't do that in the West?

And if the women go around bare-breasted because of the culture should we adapt to their culture and allow our wives to do the same.
If the culture is wrong, then the culture needs to change, not the Bible.

 

[tinytim]

Culture! Culture! Culture! The beats should be culturally regulated--suppose we take the Gospel to a drumbeating/dancing tribe in Africa, should we prohibit them from drumbeating/dancing because we don't do that in the West?

'

Good question...

We in the west beleive we have the only true Christianity...

We are conceded and prideful...

No, we should not prohibit them just because we are ignorant of cultural differences in worship...

We should celebrate diversity.

 

[tinytim]

And if the women go around bare-breasted because of the culture should we adapt to their culture and allow our wives to do the same.
If the culture is wrong, then the culture needs to change, not the Bible.

Right... the bible says to dance to worship....

And since your culture denys it, your cultural world view is wrong, and should come in line with the Bible.

 

[Bro. James]

Drums beating

Interesting point. I think it already happened--the other way. Rock-and-Roll has been traced to the Congo--50-60 years ago. Now we have Christian(?) Rock.

No, Jesus won't let you keep your practices. That is why the Gospel is so watered down. Put your crucifix icons next to your voodoo dolls--everything will be O.K. Have you followed the gospel into Mexico or S.A. lately?

Gotta win em one way or another, right? Rubbish.

Selah,

Bro. James

P.S. So much for conformity. Sorry I left out the best counter point: with a capella singing, there is no cultural conflict--you don't use any sort of instrument, just vocal cords and lungs.

 

[Sopranette]

Culture! Culture! Culture! The beats should be culturally regulated--suppose we take the Gospel to a drumbeating/dancing tribe in Africa, should we prohibit them from drumbeating/dancing because we don't do that in the West?

No, but in Western culture, some beats are associated with music that glorifies sinful behaviour, not God. This would not be true in countries like Africa.

love,

Sopranette

 

[DHK]

Right... the bible says to dance to worship....

And since your culture denys it, your cultural world view is wrong, and should come in line with the Bible.

Show me in proper context where Christians are given any mandate to dance.

 

[annsni]

And why is that a fleshly response?
I close my eyes and pray. Is that also a fleshly response to the Pastor's request to do so?

But it's been said that those who have this response to modern music - when it turns their hearts to the Lord and results in praising Him, that it's an emotional response and wrong.

Originally Posted by annsni
I still don't understand how, if the world likes something, it makes it unGodly. I have a pretty skirt I tried on last week to see if it was something I wanted to get to wear for church. It's a long black moleskin skirt that turned out to be very flattering. Another woman was there and said "Oh - I like that skirt!" Should I have not bought it? does it mean that it was now identifying with the world?

If your skirt is modest, covers most of your body, it will glorify God.
If your skirt is half way up from your knees it will follow the world who like to expose their skin and their sexuality. There is a difference between the Godly and the ungodly, the saved and the unsaved.

But what if I have a long skirt that is modest and a woman comes to me who LOVES the skirt and wants to get the same one. Does that mean that it's evil?

How can a song - even a song that sings of Christ and has a wonderful melody

Do you think that the harp-playing of David had a wonderful melody? What kind of beat do you think was in his music?

Every song has a beat.

- be "worldly" and an enemy of Christ just because someone of the world likes it? I don't think that's a good measuring stick of whether something is Godly or not.

"If the world hates me it will hate you." Don't you think the corolloray of that statement is also true.
If the world loves the devil's children, it will love the music of the devil also. Whose side are you on? You can't be on both. You must decide. Not all music is Godly. The Word of God points that out very clearly.

No. I don't think the corollary of the statement is always true. If that statement is fully true, then you should be the absolute enemy of everyone around you and the world should hate everything about you. That's not the truth. However, the world will hate Jesus in us. Not all SONGS are Godly. The Word does not point out very clearly that not all MUSIC is Godly.

Hey - the Jehovah's Witnesses that came to the door the other day raved about the KJV. I guess that's now an unGodly Bible.

We can learn from other religions. It is sad but true, but other relgions are often more dedicated to their gods than Christians who have the truth, and Christians ought to be ashamed of it.

But according to what I'm reading you're saying, the JWs are not Godly and they love the KJV so that means that it's ungodly. What you're saying here is totally opposite of what you've been saying.

 

[DHK]

But it's been said that those who have this response to modern music - when it turns their hearts to the Lord and results in praising Him, that it's an emotional response and wrong.

That depends on the emotional response doesn't it. Not all emotional responses are good. Closing one's eyes and silently praying or silently rejoicing is not fleshly by any stretch of the imagination. There is no "display" of the emotions. If the prayer ends up in a loud outward waiing, weeping, uncontrollable sobbing, then that would be a display of emotions, and if the rejoicing would be a yelling, shouting, rolling down the aisles, laughter, etc. that would be a very fleshly display of emotions that is often found in Charismatic churches.

But what if I have a long skirt that is modest and a woman comes to me who LOVES the skirt and wants to get the same one. Does that mean that it's evil?

No, it simply means that some unsaved people have good taste in clothing and that is not wrong.

Every song has a beat.

Quite true. But you avoided my question, and didn't read my post carefully enough. I never said that songs or music didn't have beats. What I asked you is What kind of beat do you think his music would have had?

No. I don't think the corollary of the statement is always true. If that statement is fully true, then you should be the absolute enemy of everyone around you and the world should hate everything about you.

Jesus said to love your enemies.

Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
--We have a message of love, though we live in a world of hate.

That's not the truth. However, the world will hate Jesus in us. Not all SONGS are Godly. The Word does not point out very clearly that not all MUSIC is Godly.

Yes it does, if you are motivated enough to study your Bible.

But according to what I'm reading you're saying, the JWs are not Godly and they love the KJV so that means that it's ungodly. What you're saying here is totally opposite of what you've been saying.

You make too many logical fallacies.
1st Premise: The J.W.'s are ungodly.
2nd Premise: The J.W.'s use the KJV.
Conclusion: Therefore the KJV is ungodly.

Your conclusion to be drawn is that the KJV is also used by ungodly people. But you drew a conclusion about the character of the KJV. The character of the KJV has nothing to do with your first two premises. The syllogism is illogical.

 

[TCGreek]

And if the women go around bare-breasted because of the culture should we adapt to their culture and allow our wives to do the same.
If the culture is wrong, then the culture needs to change, not the Bible.

I agree if the cultural expression goes against Scripture and therefore not everything from another culture must be adapted--but drumbeat and dancing are not innately wrong.

 

[TCGreek]

No, but in Western culture, some beats are associated with music that glorifies sinful behaviour, not God. This would not be true in countries like Africa.

love,

Sopranette

What exactly do you mean by music, for there are different types of music?---I need to know which type you have in mind.

 

[TCGreek]

'

Good question...

We in the west beleive we have the only true Christianity...

We are conceded and prideful...

No, we should not prohibit them just because we are ignorant of cultural differences in worship...

We should celebrate diversity.

Precisely so, for John speaks of the different tribes, peoples, language and so on, singing the new song (Rev 5).

 

[Sopranette]

TC, I realize you're jumping into this later, but we've already covered a number of different genres, styles, histories, and preferences.

love,

Sopranette

 

[rbell]

Interesting point. I think it already happened--the other way. Rock-and-Roll has been traced to the Congo--50-60 years ago. Now we have Christian(?) Rock.

Sorry....James, read this carefully, because I know from your posts you don't feel the way I'm about to describe.

But the aforementioned statement you made is an urban legend made up by racist pastors to justify their prejudice. There is no data to back that up. It comes from circles of people with a "whites only" agenda.

Repeating: I know you don't feel that way...but that is the source of your statement...just giving you a heads-up.

 

[corndogggy]

Back to the original question... yes, I do think some should be avoided. However, just because they have a good beat, or sound like a rock or hip hop style... well, that's just rubbish. However, some beats are just very synonymous with very unholy songs.

I'm going to give you an example, and just as a warning, you're probably going to be offended if you watch the whole thing, but, just to make my point, listen to the beat at the beginning of the song:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=387ZDGSKVSg

Now, you're an idiot and a liar if you listened to popular secular music in the 90's and say that if I got up on a drum set and started playing that beat in church, that you're not going to be thinking about "Wild Thing".

So yeah, if a particular beat is VERY synonymous to a particular "bad" song like this one, sure, it needs to be avoided. But, just because it has a generic rock feel or whatever, I think that's kinda dumb.

 

[corndogggy]

How about 10,000 male voices singing "How Great Thou Art"--acapella--indoors?

We use hymn books and vocal cords to make a joyful noise unto the Lord. Some do not need the books. What God has made is beautiful. Man likes to perform. Man likes to applaud--himself and others.

Most modern day worship(?) is entertainment of the flesh--tickling of the ears and gyrations of the body.

Perhaps an opera singer listens to your 10,000 male voices, gets their ears ticked, then starts wiggling to the music... would you stop if they did?

 

[DHK]

Perhaps an opera singer listens to your 10,000 male voices, gets their ears ticked, then starts wiggling to the music... would you stop if they did?

Do opera singer "wiggle" to other opera singers' music? :laugh: