Should terrorists be Mirandized?

[Zaac]

Some terrorists are natural-born citizens and other naturalized citizens. So they have rights under the Constitution.

If we go back to the original intent of the Constitution, the theory is that all persons had Creator-given rights that the Constitution RECOGNIZED. The Constitution did not GRANT rights, but simply recognized what was apparent to thinking men and women.

Jefferson noted such thinking in the Declaration of Independence when asserted that:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
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Now the Founders were not completely consistent in their beliefs - it was a white male dominated world - but the principle is sound. That is the high standard to which the United States was founded. Yet many people today - including Mr. Trump - don't know that or they want to throw it away.

Conservative people want to conserve this principle. You are not politically conservative if you want to throw it away.

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They want to win an election more. That's why I've said before that the abandonment of Christian good sense in this election and the last is nothing more than idolatry that shows that a lot of folks calling themselves evangelicals care more about winning an election than they do about winning souls or anything else.

 

[Internet Theologian]

We follow the Constitution. Doesn't matter if we have video of the man doing this atrocity.

See, we don't get to play Constitution when it comes to 1A, 5A or 2A then throw it out because some terrorist blew up some people and then pick it back up later. Nope. We stick to the books.

 

[Judith]

With the New York bomber refusing to talk and all lawyered up, my question is: do we really need to Mirandize these enemy combatants?

In case you wonder, I say no! In fact, I hope if Trump wins, he sends these idiots straight to Gitmo!!!!!

As long as the crime was done on our soil and the person is being prosecuted by the civilian justice system the answer is yes.

 

[Don]

From Benedict Arnold to Jane Fonda, traitors come in all shapes and colors, and genders. I consider American citizens taking up arms, and that includes bombs, against other Americans on our own soil for a cause that has declared war against us as a people as nothing less than traitors, and traitors deserve no rights, especially rights accorded to fellow citizens. The minute they intend to take the life f a fellow citizen for the purpose of war, means they forfiet any Constitutuional rights gauranteed them Under those laws.

Regarding the bolded -- how are you going to know it was for the purpose of war if you don't follow due process? And due process includes Miranda.

 

[Use of Time]

It's remarkable watching those that cling to the Constitution in one argument readily toss it out for convenience in another argument. It's just so typical of this board. Rev Mitch. and RD2 have both cried about Kaepernick disrespecting the flag. Rev even called it unAmerican but the Constitution...we'll just pretend the foundation of our country doesn't exist for this situation.

 

[righteousdude2]

Fair enough. But the question here is whether or not a person SUSPECTED of such a thing should be allowed Constitutional protects. You have already determined guilt and on that basis, want to eliminate protections in place to prevent people from being declared guilty without appropriate evidence. That's a classic example of circular reasoning.

As someone who was innocently placed on the terror watch list because I fit a certain profile - without a channel of recourse so that I could have my case examined - I am quite sensitive to these issues.

Your rhetoric would have me sitting in a cage at Gitmo, enjoying rounds of water boarding, just for the crime flying last minute to a city on the Mexican border as part of my job.

That is unfortunate, and I feel badly for you or anyone wrongly placed on a no fly list! Still, there is national secutiry to consider, and at least in America you have a chance to appeal that decision and get it over turned! At least I hope you did?

 

[Squire Robertsson]

From what I've read about the no fly list, getting de-listed is convoluted and expensive. And that's if the DHS even acknowledges you're on it.

SNIP at least in America you have a chance to appeal that decision and get it over turned!

 

[righteousdude2]

From what I've read about the no fly list, getting de-listed is convoluted and expensive. And that's if the DHS even acknowledges you're on it.

Thanks Squire. I know if it were me on that list, I'd be fighting mad. If it took an attorney, or a corral full of attorneys, I'd seek a fix. I understand they are helping us, but if what you say is true, that is a crime. I'd even be camped out at my senators office, although I don't like Boxer or Pelosi, I'd be civil, and grovel and beg.

 

[righteousdude2]

It's remarkable watching those that cling to the Constitution in one argument readily toss it out for convenience in another argument. It's just so typical of this board. Rev Mitch. and RD2 have both cried about Kaepernick disrespecting the flag. Rev even called it unAmerican but the Constitution...we'll just pretend the foundation of our country doesn't exist for this situation.

Still not finding a better "use of time" huh? Can't see beyond the liberal eyesight you've been blessed with, huh? Takeoff the blinders. That Constitution excuse and argument can only be used so often. In times of war, the enemy is not accorded the same rights as an American. I believe the internment camps showed this to be true, and let me see .... oh, right, it was a three term Democrat president that made that call. Hopefully the cat won't have your tongue in finding a response to FDR's attempts to protect American's. Right or wrong, at the time, it made sense. Hindsight is often better, but at that moment in time, it made many feel safer.

 

[Baptist Believer]

That is unfortunate, and I feel badly for you or anyone wrongly placed on a no fly list! Still, there is national secutiry to consider, and at least in America you have a chance to appeal that decision and get it over turned! At least I hope you did?

Actually, you DON'T get to appeal the decision. I was stuck on the list for nearly four years until I realized how to force the US government to conduct an investigation of me - I applied for a concealed handgun license. After that process, I was removed.

But here's the thing... being put on the list didn't make the US safer. It simply caused problems for a good citizen. Moreover, we are coming very close to violating the essence of who we are as a nation if we continue down this road. If we don't believe in "innocent until proven guilty", protections against self-incrimination, habeas corpus, religious liberty for all, freedom of the press, etc., then we have become traitors to our heritage as American citizens.

Terroristic acts cannot destroy the United States. They can hurt us, but they cannot destroy us. However, terrorism does not try to destroy. Terrorists seek to get their enemies to react in ways that suits their agenda. The fearful citizens of the United States are trying to get the rest of us to play into the hands of the terrorists by shutting our doors to Muslims who refuse to be radicalized and won't go along with an extreme version of Islam. They have been quite successful at getting vocal US citizens to militate against the refugees. They also want to destroy our example of liberty for all and our free society. That actually seems to be working as well.

I refuse to be a traitor to the ideals this nation was founded upon. I refuse to let fear dominate the way I live my life. I refuse to undermine the God-given rights of other people in hopes that I may be marginally safer.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Thanks Squire. I know if it were me on that list, I'd be fighting mad. If it took an attorney, or a corral full of attorneys, I'd seek a fix/

I was advised that it would be considered "suspicious behavior" and would be considered a sign that you are trying to hide from the government - I'm not kidding.

I understand they are helping us, but if what you say is true, that is a crime. I'd even be camped out at my senators office, although I don't like Boxer or Pelosi, I'd be civil, and grovel and beg.

And that would be "suspicious."

The issue is simply that it is extremely difficult to prove that you are not planning to do something against the US government in your mind. That is why the burden of proof in criminal cases is on the prosecution.

I faced the issue of how to force the US government to actually do an investigation of me without making my status worse. When I was checking into a concealed handgun permit, I realized they have to do a full federal, state, and local investigation to make a decision on whether or not to grant a permit. They cannot simply ignore it. I was concerned that they might think I was planning something, but then realized that government law enforcement officials (who are more connected with reality regarding guns) know that criminals do not seek to be compliant with firearms laws. So I took the chance. My permit was slightly delayed, but granted. The next time I needed to fly - about three months later - I breezed through.

 

[righteousdude2]

I was advised that it would be considered "suspicious behavior" and would be considered a sign that you are trying to hide from the government - I'm not kidding.


And that would be "suspicious."

The issue is simply that it is extremely difficult to prove that you are not planning to do something against the US government in your mind. That is why the burden of proof in criminal cases is on the prosecution.

I faced the issue of how to force the US government to actually do an investigation of me without making my status worse. When I was checking into a concealed handgun permit, I realized they have to do a full federal, state, and local investigation to make a decision on whether or not to grant a permit. They cannot simply ignore it. I was concerned that they might think I was planning something, but then realized that government law enforcement officials (who are more connected with reality regarding guns) know that criminals do not seek to be compliant with firearms laws. So I took the chance. My permit was slightly delayed, but granted. The next time I needed to fly - about three months later - I breezed through.

Well to be truthful brother, I don't know you, but I'd think you were a candidate for a no fly list to. You seem rather suspicious (just kidding) to me! Glad you can fly again. Of course, I hate flying, so had I known your problem, I would switched places with you gladly!